Non Instructional Poker Books

[morgant]

Its christmas time so a great time to give a receive literature. I have read Big Deal and that is it as far as non-instructional poker books, i couldnt put it down by the way.....Any other suggestions of some favorites?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The Biggest Game in Town, by A. Alvarez
Poker Nation (can't remember the author)
Doyle Brunson's latest.
Positively 5th Street, by McManus

[J.R.]

Poker Nation is by Andy Bellin (spelling could be off there)

IMO, although he sucks as a TV commentator, Jesse May's "Shut up and deal" is a must.

[scotnt73]

*poker nation is good.
**positively 5th street is very good.
**i read amarillo slims biography in a world of fat people or whatever and thought it was boring as hell just basically slim telling a few tall tales that werent interesting or id heard before
**theres a book out about several MIT(?) students who took vegas for alot of money a few years ago in some kind of scam that ive been eying but i havent heard enough about it yet to buy.

[J.R.]

ben mezrich's "bringing down the house: the inside story of six MIT students who took vegas for millions"

I thought it was entertaining.


a little about it (http://www.blackjack-king.com/blackjack-king-articles.php?article=3)

[scotnt73]

thanks you sir. sounds good. Ill give it a read.

[Glenn]

Shut Up and Deal is the best non-instructional poker book. I don't know why it always gets left out of these lists. The Biggest Game in Town is also decent.

[scotnt73]

if shut up and deals as good as positively 5th street im in. Can anyone else vouch for it? I havent heard much about it.

[FeliciaLee]

The owner of Gambler's Book Shop told me that when they were cleaning out their attic, they found a ton of Johnny Moss' biographies. They had forgotten all about them, and the book went out of print a long time ago.

Anyway, the remembered that Johnny gave them boxes of his book to sell, just trusting them to send him the money. After they found the leftover books in the attic, they called his daughter in Texas and she gave them permission to sell the remaining books.

They are clearance priced at 50% off, and a terrific read. I believe you can have it shipped.

Moss was the greatest, so you might as well start with the best!

[morgant]

hey felcia, is it called Champion of Champions by Don Jenkins?
thanks

[scotnt73]

no disrespect intended but i always here that Moss wasnt as good as we are led to believe by some people. I know Doyle thinks the world of him but ive heard alot of other "Experts" say negative things. My point is i dont really know what to think of Moss anymore. Anyone care to set me straight?

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
hey felcia, is it called Champion of Champions by Don Jenkins?
thanks

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes! Sorry I didn't list the title to begin with. I'm trying to do 20 things at once, lol.

Enjoy!

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
no disrespect intended but i always here that Moss wasnt as good as we are led to believe by some people. I know Doyle thinks the world of him but ive heard alot of other "Experts" say negative things. My point is i dont really know what to think of Moss anymore. Anyone care to set me straight?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi, Scot! Basically, I don't listen to what anyone has to say on any given subject (opinion), if I can do research and find out for myself.

I have watched all of the old WSOP tapes. Watching Moss in '73 compared to the other players was awesome. He was the only one who was not giving off tells. He was a stone. The other players seemed very transparent to me. He was talking tells and odds when everyone else was just looking at him like he'd lost his mind.

Moss was in the money for the first 19 years of the WSOP, I believe. Doesn't seem so incredible? He was well into his 80's when he won his last bracelet! He was still winning WSOP bracelets up through 1989! How many dudes in their mid eighties are capable of that now? One might say he got "lucky" in the early days of tourneys, but by '89, one needed more than "luck" to win a bracelet!

I am sure his play deteriorated when he was in his mid-eighties, but why should we remember his play from his last days only?

Like I said, I don't really listen to any subjective opinions, when I can do research myself. I have watched his videos, read articles about him, and looked up his final table appearances at the WSOP, combined with his bracelet wins. No one else could claim his success well into their 80's, much less winning bracelets at a point when competition was tougher at the WSOP and the young, math crowd had taken over (late 1980's). I would say most guys his age are enjoying their last years relaxing, not playing world class poker.

Watch the videos, check out pokerpages.com for the results of people in the money throughout the 70's and 80's. Then form an opinion of your own. Don't rely on me or anyone else.

I say people who think Moss couldn't play WCP are fools. But they might say I am a fool, and they might be right!

[scotnt73]

thanks for the enlightenment. Ive been wanting to see the old WSOP vidios for a while now. I have never even seen anything but still photos of Moss so i will have to break down and buy the old wsop events. You have a great point about drawing our own conclusions. I am curious to watch these vidios and see how good him and STU where. I hear alot of debates about both these guys and need to see for myself.

[all_aces]

"The Man With the $100,000 Breasts", and its follow-up, "Telling Lies and Getting Paid". Michael Konik I believe is the authour. Both are collections of true gambling stories, some about poker some not.

"Telling Lies...." devotes the entire last third of the book to one story: the author's experiences in WSOP.

Entertaining stuff.

"Bringing Down the House" was MUCH better than I thought it would be. I don't play blackjack, so I only just read it when my girlfriend picked it up for me. But it is truly a great read, that blackjack and non-blackjack gamblers will greatly enjoy.

The rest of the staples have been covered, except for maybe Amarillo Slim's recent autobiography which is basically just gambling story after gambling story. Interesting enough, but not at the top of my list by any means.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for the enlightenment. Ive been wanting to see the old WSOP vidios for a while now. I have never even seen anything but still photos of Moss so i will have to break down and buy the old wsop events. You have a great point about drawing our own conclusions. I am curious to watch these vidios and see how good him and STU where. I hear alot of debates about both these guys and need to see for myself.

[/ QUOTE ]
When you watch the WSOP videos, I think that if you remember the way people were playing in those days, watch the other players, then compare them to Moss, you will be surprised.

I am working on a chart of Moss finishes, but it is by no means complete. Here is a starter, tell me what you think:
------------------------------------------------------
Johnny Moss
(wins, final table appearances & times in the money)

Years 1970-1988--"in the money." First place through last payable place. Eight bracelets total, 1970-1988.

1970--voted champion (7 competitors)
1971--won championship event (7 competitors)
1972--second place championship event (8 competitors)
1973--second place championship event (13 competitors)
1974--won championship event (16 competitors)
1975--won seven stud event (44k prize money, unsure total number of competitors)

1975--final table (unsure of place) championship event (21 competitors)

1976--won seven stud event (13k prize money, unsure total number of competitors)

1977--final table (unsure of place) championship event (34 competitors)

1978--final table (unsure of place, not in top six), (31 competitors)

1979--Fifth place in championship event (54k prize money, 54 competitors)

1979--won seven stud event (48k prize money, unsure total number of competitors)

1980--Fourth place in championship event (73k prize money, 73 competitors)

1981--won seven stud split event (33.5k prize money, unsure total number of competitors)

1981--unsure of place in championship event (75 competitors)
1982--unsure of place in championship event (104 competitors)

1983--unsure of place in championship event (108 competitors)

1984--unsure of place in championship event (132 competitors)

1985--Seventh place in championship event (42k prize money, unsure total number of competitors)

1985--unsure of place in championship event, made it to the final day (140 competitors)

1986--unsure of place in championship event (141 competitors)

1988--won Ace to Five Draw event ($116,400 prize money, unsure total number of competitors)

1988--unsure of place in championship event (167 competitors)
-----------------------------------
This does not take into consideration the number of times Moss was at the final table in any other event other the championship event. Nor does it list the number of times he took 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.

As awesome as these stats are, I think if I had a full, comprehensive list of every final table appearance and place, the results would be overwhelming.

[baggins]

check out Michael Konik's books - 'The Man with the $100,000 Breasts' and 'Telling Lies and Getting Paid'. he's a good writer, and the stories are interesting.

I also enjoyed Herbert Yardley's book from when the printing press was first invented, and would second the suggestions for McManus' Positively Fifth Street. I'd like to get it myself, but i haven't yet.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Here are a few not previouly mentioned

1) Herbert Yardley's "The Education of a Poker Player" was pretty good. Here's a link:
http://tinyurl.com/yo67

2) Rick Bennet's "King of a Small World" is a good read. Sort of like "Shut Up and Deal" by Jesse May.
http://tinyurl.com/yo6j

3) I've also heard "The Hand I Played by David Spanier is good. I read one of his older books and remember liking it.
http://tinyurl.com/yo70

~ Rick

[Ragnar]

I had a great deal of difficulty enjoying Positively Fifth Street because of the murder trial information. It isn't that the murder trial isn't interesting, it was sensational. It is just that it didn't ring true to me, having tried 20 murder cases. It ruined the book for me. Enjoy the poker part of the book, but take it the parts about the murder trial with a grain of salt.

Ragnar

[banditbdl]

Is Shut up and Deal written by a Jesse May who was one of the commentators for the Showdown at the Sands tourney? If so I don't think I can support his book due to the fact he slowly drove me insane over the course of that event.

[I.Rowboat]

"Shut up and Deal" was a good read, with a nice stream-of-consciousness aspect towards the end that really captured some of the mania that comes from playing too many hours in one sitting. Jesse May did a good job of keeping the story moving, and it was laugh-outloud funny in spots. I would place it a bit above "Poker Nation" but definitely several notches below "The Biggest Game in Town" and "Big Deal," which are my two personal picks for best non-instructional poker books. [Al Alvarez and Tony Holden are wonderful writers, something this genre desperately needs.] And yes, Jesse May's insipid "sunday Sunday SUNDAY!!!' style of announcing on the recent Sands' broadcast just about drove me from the room.

"Total Poker" by David Spanier was another well written book, but it's more a collection of interesting chapters and lacks a narative thread. But Spanier had a great love for his subject and this shines through his prose.

"The Education of a Poker Player" by Yardley is interesting for historical reasons, but (as someone else said) it was written before moveable type had been invented.

"Positively Fifth Street" -- Flawed but still interesting.

"Poker Nation" -- Ditto

"Fast Company" by Jon Bradshaw. Biographies of six gamblers, including Puggy Pearson and Johnny Moss. Well written -- the chapter on Titanic Thompson was fascinating, even if the guy was a real SOB.

"Man With the $100,000 Breasts" by Konik -- Great stories, well written.

Non-poker book related to gambling worth reading:

"The Eudemonic Pie" by Thomas A. Bass -- Very bright graduate students use Newtonian physics to beat roulette using clunky, first generation shoe computers. A good read.

Books to avoid:

"Tap City," by Ron Abell. A novel of a fictional poker tournement in Reno that I found uncompelling.

"Play Poker to Win," by Amarillo Slim and some ghost writer. This was Slim's first book, and not only does it NOT tell you how to play poker to win, it also doesn't contain much in the way of interesting stories. His more recent autobiography was better, but still not top shelf stuff.

Anyway, those are my thoughts...

[MaxPower]

There is a great book by Rick Bradshaw called "Fast Company." The book is a series of profiles of Johnny Moss, Puggy Pearson, Titanic Thompson, Minnessota Fats, Tim Holland, and Bobby Riggs. It is not entirely about poker, but I really enjoyed it.

It was out of print for a while, but I just looked at Amazon and it is now available.

Another fascinating book is "Gambling Scams" by Darwin Ortiz.

[HDPM]

Well, I think it's Jon Bradshaw, but the book is excellent. The best of many mentioned here. Way better than newer books like Positively 5th or Poker Nation IMO. Better than Gambling Wizards by a bunch. GW is pretty good and talks w/ modern gamblers, but the writing is nowhere near as good. (The Moss debate folks need to read what Doyle says about Moss in GW btw) Good if Fast Company is available again. It is a must read.

[baggins]

"Total Poker" by David Spanier was another well written book, but it's more a collection of interesting chapters and lacks a narative thread. But Spanier had a great love for his subject and this shines through his prose.

true. true.

[RydenStoompala]

Just tossing in my votes for Poker Nation and Positively Fifth Street .

[45Player]

Only one other poster has mentioned it, but "King of a Small World" by Rick Bennet was for me the best of the lot, and I've read nearly all of the books mentioned. Rick Bennet is no Alvarez or Holden, but his description of some of the poker games are the best I’ve seen in any book.

Having said that I thought ‘The Biggest Game in Town’ by Alvarez excellent also. Holden’s book is a bit over-rated I think.

[MaxPower]

You're right, its Jon Bradshaw. Where did I come up with Rick Bradshaw? Is that the guy who made the Paris Hilton sex tape? No that's some other Rick.

Anyway, it really is a great book and I'm glad it is back in print. The section on Titanic Thompson is my favorite.

[nicky g]

I'll vouch for it. It's good.

[nicky g]

"The Little Book of Poker" by David Spanier is a collection of his columns on poker for the Independent newspaper. It's entertaining and fun to come back to and browse from time to time. His other two poker books, "Total Poker" and "The Hand I played" have some interesting stuff and some not so interesting stuff. Most of his advice, when he gives it, is pretty bad. I really love the chapter in "The Hand I Played" about how he got into gambling and poker in his youth, though.

[LetsRock]

I enjoyed it over all, but the writing style wasn't great. It felt like the whole book was one long sentence. It wasn't, of course, but that's what it felt like.

I didn't know he was the guy doing the Sands broadcast but it doesn't surprise me at all.

[WDC]

Positevly Fifth Street
Poker Nation
The Biggest game in Town

[superleeds]

How about Play Poker Like the Pros by Phil Hellmuth Jr

On a more serious note
The Odds: One Season, Three Gamblers, and the Death of their Las Vegas by Chad Millman is very good if a little depressing at times. It's about Sports Betting but I found it a riveting read with good insights into the gambling mind.