PLO, ignorant ends of the straight

[joeg]

Hi, I'm just learning PLO, I play once a week and not very well. In this particular hand I was in late position with 2446 and am on tilt so I call, I knew when I threw the chips in that this was wrong. The flop came 35J rainbow this flop is about as good as I cood have hoped for, 16 outs make me a straight and 11 of these will be the temporary nuts and 2 of the non nut outs give me a set for a full house redraw.

So I bet the pot and had one EP caller then the turn came a six, to be honest I'd rather have missed, at least then I'd have outs. The EP player then bet the pot, I had enough left to call and raise about the same again.

I decided to move all in, mainly because I was on tilt but also because the EP player is good at detecting weakness and will bluff at it with nothing, secondly because I didnt have to worry about action later in the hand, my all in was relatively cheap in relation to the size of the pot.

I know I shouldnt have been in the pot to start with but my main issue is how do you play when you play a big draw and hit one of your weak outs and somebody bets into you. If the money is deep I think folding is better, but when its shallow Like it was here, was I wrong to move in. Second would a checkraise have been better on the flop, it could take the pot on its own, I'm happy to get a lot of chips in here as I'm not in a bad position against a set and some of my weaker outs could be good, and its no great shame if everyone checks round to me as I've got a good chance to improve and a small pot would be easier to get away from if a card like a 6 fell.

so any critism on how badly I played this hand is appreciated

[dogsballs]

47xx is the only thing that beats you on the turn. He'd really need 467 to stay on the flop - or something freakish like JJ47.
4567?

I think the crux is: How would the opp play a hand including those cards from EP? Need to know something of the player here. If he held the sensible 4567, then why didn't he bet the flop? Of course he could have AA74 rainbow or AK74ds, etc, or just play loose anyway. He's just getting my chips in this spot many times if he has the nuts.

You do need to bet those flops to clear them out (or win the pot right there). You don't want someone else backing into a draw.

Posts on big bet hands are much more informative if you give info on the no of players to the flop and stack sizes of relevant players.

[joeg]

thanks for the reply, ordinarily I do includ the stack sizes and players to the flop, but this hand was late last and I was tired and cant fully remember the details, I was playing a short stack though. The player in question would call with any 8 out straight draw, and on the turn it is possible, but unlikely that we held the same straight.

[Zag]

1. Don't play on tilt. To make excuses for yourself to play badly is just self-destructive and immature. Be a grown-up.

2. This is as good a flop as you could hope for, as you said. Good bet on the flop.

3. I had thought you said it was an online game, so I was about to ask how could he "sense weakness" if you had position, but now I realize that it was a live game. If he called you with 47 and overcards, by golly, he deserves your money. But I suspect that he has JJ -- he still has outs, but you are clearly ahead. Plus there is a chance he is just bluffing, as you said. Push it in.

[crockpot]

i think you have the right idea about folding when you hit a weak out and the money is deep. when it is reasonably shallow, as here, put your card-reading skills to use.

as for your flop play, i don't really like the check-raise here, although it depends on the exact situation. how many players were behind you? unless they are aggressive, you can't really count on them to bet for you. also, if you do check-raise, get called, and miss on fourth street, you are probably going to be out of position on the key betting round with virtually no chance he will fold, and only enough money on the table for one last bet. this is certainly not an enviable situation.