Dead money defense

[slavic]

I've played with MP2 several times. He or She happens to be one of those aggressive players that plays fairly loose but plays very well post flop. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker 5/10 (10 handed)
slavic has Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif and is CO

MP1 limps, MP2 raises, slavic(poster) calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds

Flop(8 2/5 SB): K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif

MP2 checks, slavic bets, Button folds, MP2 calls

Turn(5 1/5 BB): 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif

MP2 checks, slavic checks

River(5 1/5 BB): 9/images/graemlins/club.gif

MP2 checks, slavic bets, MP2 calls

[Brian]

Hi Slavic,

I would bet the Turn. I understand that check-calling the Flop after having raised pre-Flop looks suspicious, but if he plays loose pre-Flop, then there are still many hands that he could have. I would not give a free card here.

-Brian

[kg99]

why slavic checks the turn? if he has a J or a T, he's getting a free gutshot draw.

[Joe Tall]

Good lord, bet the turn!

Peace,
JT

[chesspain]

Slavic,

You need to crank up that bobble-headed action figure you took off your page and BET the turn! You flop top two-pair, on which your opponent only checkcalled. Then a brick hit, and you check behind him, even though there could be a gutshot as well as now two flush draws in play.

In addition, I may get flamed for this, but I think you need to muck PF. You suggest that MP2 is LAG, but does that mean you think he'll raise PF after one limper with crap? If so, then you need to 3-bet, and hope he isn't playing QQ, KK, AK, or AQ (wow, those are a lot of PF raising hands which will dominate you /images/graemlins/smirk.gif). By just calling with KQo, you set yourself up to be trapped holding a second-best hand.

[ElSapo]

In my experience, players who play too loose pre-flop but well post-flop tend to loosen up their limping standards more than their raising standards. I think this is a muck, pre-flop.

I don't see the dead money you refer to.

As for the turn check... Your logic doesn't seem to make sense. You call pre-flop because you think this person is too loose, but then check (I assume to avoid a checkraise) because you think they have a monster?

I agree the check-call is weird. You'd expect this flop to be bet by a pre-flop raiser, almost regardless of what they held. So seeing a possible check-raise coming isn't out of the ordinary. Also, the raiser having a hand like a middle pair seems possible.

It's just that your two ideas seem to clash, calling because the person is loose, and then checking behind because you think the raise may now mean more. But then again, you have to keep your opinions fluid as the game goes on.

I don't mind the check. You may induce a bet or call on the river, and you may avoid the check-raise if it's coming. But you do risk a lot of free cards on a drawish board.

I think you should probably bet this, and if raised consider laying it down. But bet it, and if checked to again on the river, bet that also.

[slavic]

To tell the truth I have no idea what MP1 is limping with here, just about anything playable needs to be raised. MP2 plays pretty well other than his calling standards and raises with position quite a bit. Since I have position and a hand that is as likely to dominate him as he to dominate me I call.

The check on the flop caught me as funny, if he had bet on the flop the war would have been on, but his check call runs odd. It means one of two things, I have a monster JT, QQ, KK or I totaly missed(AT,AJ,TT,JJ), there is also an outside shot of AQ. Since he did not bet the flop I discounted the flush draw.

The turn did not help anyone. He checks, and I check behind because I either avoid a check raise or I may induce a bluff on the river. {OK so this is the problem area, by the TOP I should probably bet here, because monsters are outnumbered by hands that don't have odds to call, thus bet to let my opponent make a mistake. Of course I doubt my opponent will make a mistake and I decide to play with deception, thus a delima.}

On the river he checks again, and I bet just to see if I can get a call.

He shows AJo

[WDC]

I am not sure that I understand the turn check. Was it to induce a bet on the river with the intention of raising?

With position and the straight and flush draws out there, I think I would have bet the turn. Am I missing something?