Why does everyone hate....

[LetsRock]

I have a couple of Warren's books (amongst others Caro, Sklansky etc) and also Hellmuth's.

I understand why everyone is ragging on Hellmuth's book as he did present some pretty extreme tactics (it was a fun read and it IS good to know where some of the maniacs are coming from), but I don't understand what everyone has against Warren's books.

I'm not in any one author's camp, I try to get a little different angle from each "expert". I found Warren's books to be easy to understand and didn't note anything that seemed to be especially poor advice.

I'm curious - what's the problem with Warren?

[lunchmeat]

I read, but do not own, Warren's O8 book. There isn't one piece of advice in that book that isn't covered better in any one of the following sources 1) Ray Zee's Book 2)Other Poker Forum 3) 2+2 archives 4)Steve Badger's website (http://www.playwinningpoker.com)and even 5) Hellmuth's book

It seemed like the bulk of Warren's book concentrated on how to read the board. At times Warren's language was opposite of his strategic advice (he mentions about half a dozen times that you should play loosely in O8). And worst of all, in the online section he recommends sunrise-poker, which is widely known as a scam site that won't let you make withdrawals.

I could have found better O8 material in my stool.

[bilyin]

I read the book. In it he said he is now playing Omaha because he was beating up the holdem game so much that the casinos asked him to stop playing so the other players have a chance.

[crockpot]

warren's book is fine for what it is - a quick read designed for someone who has never played o/8 before, and wants to stay afloat, not win a pile. if you've ever played with these guys, you know their biggest weakness is reading the board and determining how good their low is with regard to the board, so he spends a lot of time covering that instead of dealing with strategy.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
determining how good their low is with regard to the board,

[/ QUOTE ]

I've only played a little O8 and this is a weakness. How good is his advice regarding this?

[lunchmeat]

The book has a quiz that shows your cards and the board, and you can use that as practice for reading the board. A better and less expensive way to learn is to play some online play money O8.

[Terry]

I learned the game with Ray Zee’s book and an O/8 sim, don’t remember which one.

I figured that by practicing by dealing out cards I wouldn’t know it if I made a mistake reading my hand, and that finding out I had misread my hand when the dealer was pushing the pot to someone else would quickly become more expensive than the software.

Online (play money) games weren’t available at that time, and anyway, you can play a lot more hands a lot faster with a sim.

BTW, I’ve done very well with O/8 in live games and very poorly with it online.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
The book has a quiz that shows your cards and the board, and you can use that as practice for reading the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't so much reading the board that is the problem, but knowing how good your hand is in relation to the board when you don't have the nut low and the nut low isn't an A2 or A3. I guess I'll look through it at the bookstore and see if it is what I want.

I already have Turbo O8.

[Terry]

Ah. I see. OK, try this: It’s pretty much of a function of who is in the pot and your position.

Say the board at the river contains A38, and there is a bet and a call to you (you really like to be last in this game most of the time). If the bettor and or caller are loose players, the type who might play just about any low and who might bet something like two pair or bottom set with a flush and or straight draw out, you will frequently have no idea what they have and will just have to pay off with second or third best hands.

If the bettor and or caller is someone of my ilk, who rarely shows down less than the nuts, I have A24. Count on it.