Stud8 Rook pissing $ away

[Gamblor]

Folks, first session of Stud8 above 1/2. I've never had a losing session in about 12 hours at Stud8 at 1/2 on party, but I know that doesn't mean much.

I decide to sit at a Party 3/6 table to try out a semi-real game, and my second hand is as follows:

I am dealt:

(2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. The 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is dead, two spots to my right.

3rd Street:
The 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif brings it in for $1, called by the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif to my right, I raise. Only the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif calls.

4th Street, $11 pot:
Boards:
HERO:(2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
OPPONENT: (x x) K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif

He bets, I raise, he makes it 3 bets, I call. Bad raise?
He can be put on trips or at least Kings up.

5th Street, $29 pot:
HERO:(2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif
OPPONENT: (x x) K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

He bets, I call.

6th Street, $41 pot:
HERO:(2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
OPPONENT: (x x) K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

He bets, I call. Bad call?

7th Street, $53 pot:
HERO:(2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)
OPPONENT: (x x) K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif (x)

He bets, I raise, He makes it 3. I call.

Comments?

[SevenStuda]

2,3,5 rainbow. Great hand selection.

[Fraubump]

[ QUOTE ]
2,3,5 rainbow. Great hand selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great helpful reply

[Gamblor]

Perhaps the "Rook" in the title didn't give you enough of an indication that I'm a rook.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

What kind of cards are showing behind you? This isn't the kind of hand you want to play heads-up against an obvious high.

Once you're in, don't raise on 4th. You're only playing for half the pot.

By 6th, you've got 16 outs for half the pot and 4 for a boat which may be good, but I think you have to see the river.

I wouldn't raise on the river, either, but I'm a stud/8 novice myself.

Again, the starting cards are shaky at best even if the action is multiway for the bring-in, but definitely a scary hand heads-up.

[Gamblor]

What kind of cards are showing behind you?

I don't recall exactly, but there was an A and an 8, and 3 paints, no Ks.

Once you're in, don't raise on 4th. You're only playing for half the pot.

I thought with a 4th Street raise I could bet 5th and take the pot if a scare card came i.e. any A, potential straight card (6 or 4) or a baby. The reraise told me otherwise.

I wouldn't raise on the river, either, but I'm a stud/8 novice myself.

Having filled up?

Again, the starting cards are shaky at best even if the action is multiway for the bring-in, but definitely a scary hand heads-up.

Always was under impression any 3 low cards better than any other cards out there (except that A) were worth a raise, especially if the K limped.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Preflop you don't have a 2-way hand (only a gut draw to a str8 draw) so you don't want to go heads-up with a high, plus with an A behind you, you risk being reraised. You'd rather see 4th cheap in a multiway pot and decide whether or not to play on based on what falls. Even though you have 3 wheel cards, they're very vulnerable.

I thought with a 4th Street raise I could bet 5th and take the pot if a scare card came i.e. any A, potential straight card (6 or 4) or a baby.

You're raising into a big open pair and your hand isn't made yet. He'll have a pretty good idea where he stands on 5th even if the kings are all he has.

On the river your raise wins you one more bet if he hasn't filled and loses 2 if he has. Since you have an open pair I doubt he reraises if he's not full.

[Gamblor]

Care to post a list of Top 10/20/etc. 7CS Hilo starting hands?

[tarcards]

With a hand with very low straight potential, I think its corrrect to fold on 4th st. The pot is small ($11) and against a player with open kings, it will be difficult for you to win the hi unless you catch very,very well. Playing heads up with a 1-way hand is generally not a profitable play. A hand like 2-3-5 plays better multiway.

[crockpot]

i don't like this raise. the chances of him folding are about zero unless you catch something like the 4 and 6 on fifth and sixth, and you are pretty surely a money underdog. i think a call is indicated here, although in a game with a smaller ante i would fold since the pot is small.

your call on sixth is fine. the pot is too big to drop out now. i'm not sure i would even raise on seventh, but i definitely wouldn't cap it since your raise represents at least a straight and he has reraised you.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Stud/8's not like Hold'em. There are hand categories rather than hands as such.

From Ray Zee's book (High-Low Split Poker for Advanced Players):

Category 1: Rolled up trips, 3 to a low straight flush
Category 2: A-A-low
Category 4: 3 low cards to a str8
Category 5: low-low-A
Category 6: Best high hand on board
Category 7: 3 high cards to a consecutive straight flush

This is a simplistic rendering. In the book Ray describes in detail why these hands are where they are and how to think about playing them based upon position and your opponents' cards.

[Ray Zee]

gamblor stick with the politics. you need to stand back and think some more in poker.

third you did no wrong.
4th you call because he may only have kings and that may be good for you.
5th call again you are married to this one.
6th. of course you call put your thinkin cap on. how could you consider folding
7th. tough to play it right with all your possible draws looking at him. if he knows how to play he leads out to induce a raise with a big full. so you should just call.
but if he isnt so good he might have anything, so raise and call the three bet.
if he is a nut player just make a crying call.
if he is really good, raise him as he would bet out two pair to try to get you to call with yours. he has to call the reraise in case you are low.
see this game is easy.

too bad you lost the pot.

[Vehn]

You played it fine except for the stupid raise on 4th. I would usually raise on 3rd in loose games because morons will call with worse lows behind you. Against non morons you have a limp to try to invite the 7 & 6 lows to play.

[glen]

Did you happen to notice that this is stud8?

[Gamblor]

gamblor stick with the politics. you need to stand back and think some more in poker.

That's why I'm here.

Broadening my horizons. Good grasp of hold 'em and stud, stud hilo im working on next.

[Andy B]

I've read a number of your posts now, and I can't recall ever seeing anything even remotely constructive. Do you routinely pitch three wheel cards when playing stud/8?

[Andy B]

Agreed, but do you think they're going to fold a three-card six for a raise? Do you fold three-card sixes?

[Vehn]

You're asking the guy you watched muck all of his hands for a half hour yesterday playing 6/12 7CS? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

No I guess I don't throw away 6-lows for a competion usually. But 7s, sure.

[Andy B]

Go to twodimes.net/poker and play around with some scenarios there. Even if the other guy has three Kings, it is correct to see the river with the four-card low.

[Andy B]

This hand is just fine multi-way, and it isn't all that bad heads-up. You have to catch on fourth street, but once you do, take it to the river.

[Andy B]

I don't think there's any way in hell you're buying this pot on fifth street, even if the other guy only has the Kings. If he's betting a lone pair of Kings into 75 showing, after you completed on third street, that means that he thinks that a pair of Kings is a very strong hand in this game (can be sometimes, not in this case, though), and he isn't going anywhere. If he has Kings-up or better, he definitely isn't folding, nor should he.

[Andy B]

One hand that got left out was three small cards to a flush, although it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's a good starting hand in this game. Obviously, A/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif is better than 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, but you're usually going to play the latter hand as well.

Someone somewhere ran simulations and ranked all the hands according to how they did against six random hands when all hands played to the river. Obviously, this is not how poker is played (especially not with vehn_ in the game), but I thought it was interesting. It's on-line somewhere, but I forget where. Perhaps someone can remind us. AAA was at the top and I think that Q93 was at the bottom.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I might not raise third. Other than that I don't think it was as bad as you seem to think. I wouldn't have played much differently.

al

[Gamblor]

Well, it seems my big question and my own big doubt about my play was the same as everyone else's - the raise on 3rd.

HERO:(2/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif )
OPPONENT: (K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif)

Yes, he filled on the end too.