The lunatic at the table was me (long-ish post)?

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Have played mostly 1/2 and 2/4 at Party for 6 months, always at full tables. Am up about $1,000 after 200+ hours, but expected more (unreasonable?) as I usually play 2 or more tables. I've had trouble keeping my flops to under 20%, usually seeing closer to 30% and thought I'd try max 6 tables at Party.

Last night played about 200 hands and saw a whopping 58% of flops. Freed from the tyranny of the premium hands I played what I thought was the right way for a short-handed table. I raised anything I'd have played at all at a 10-player table and called with crap I'd have thrown away at a full table. When I hit, I raised, when I missed I mucked 50% and raised or bet 50%. If re-raised I usually folded (except to the OTHER maniac at the table). At one point I was scolded by another player for playing (open-raising actually) A3o, something I'd never done before. He sent the "Hey Milo, keep playing tlike that" message I've seen when fish suckout playing crap.

So today I actually come to 2+2 to read about how to play short-handed and find that I am a complete lunatic and was lucky to walk away from the table with my shirt. Of course, last night I didn't see this, as my crap kept either hitting on the flop and people kept folding to my bluffs (and I usually don't bluff much at all). So I'm up 50 BB after an two hours of 6-max (which is statistically meaningless), but suspect I'll give it all back if I keep playing crap.

Question: Am I a fish at 6-max?

Question: There was only one other player routinely open-raising at each table I played. Are bluffs usually this easy at 6-max or were the 4 tables I played just lame?

Final Question: Am I expecting too much in the way of earnings overall?

-Milo

[Inthacup]

lol, you saw 116 flops out of 200.

At the 6-max tables, my flops seen percentage is usually around 30-35%. It's only under 30% when I'm really getting cold-decked. If you're consistantly over 50%, you're gonna get killed. What limit was this? I'm assuming 1-2? If so, you're fortunate, because in general, the players are terrible(in shorthanded terms). Most are loose passive that fold to any kind of resistance unless they have a real hand.

I occasionally open raise(either in the CO or on the button) with A3 un, but only against certain opponents. Making this raise against 2 calling stations isn't going to get you very far.


Cup

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Just looked at Pokertracker. Actually saw 129 of 197 flops or 65%! Better to be lucky than good last night, but I won't try to replicate the feat. Somehow I won 36% of the time I saw the flop and 24% of hands dealt. Seems everyone at the table wanted to see the flop, but none could stomach the post-flop raise. Again, no reason to berate me for stupidity and fishiness, I would rather forget the whole incident (but keep the $105).

-Milo

[naphand]

You seem to be in a similar position to myself as regards playing experience goes at Party. I too just switched to the 6-max tables as I needed a change.

At the risk of being berated for another *cumbersome and tedious* post I can give you my thoughts and experiences - which you can take as you wish.

When I first started on the 6 MAX $1/$2 at Party I was pretty much raising with anything half-strong, including QTo and any pair and re-raising top pair/good kicker or better. Quite often betting AQo overcards etc.

What I found was that pre-flop raises barely affected the other players - they would just call anyway UNLESS you had just showed-down KK or AA or similar in a recent hand where you raised PF. Then maybe a couple of guys would fold to your PF raise.

This strategy obviously works when you are hitting - but you will get caned unless you take the time to read the other players and adjust. A series of missed flops and betting overcards into low pairs will cost you serious BB. I lost 120 BB in 4 hours playing this way - although admittedly I made no decent hands at all (no flushes/straights/sets at all) and my TP was constantly getting Rivered. Hmmmm.... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

There are one or two good replies to posts in here about playing hands like AQo PF and into the Flop - and although my confidence is not sufficient to open-raise every opportunity I get, I am starting to pick my aggressive plays better. I see about 35-40% of flops now - which may be a little high but with so many limpers I can play a wider range of calling hands - and by that I mean suited connectors to 45s and low pairs, hands I would not want to raise with and be up against just one or two players.

Basically, the folks on the 6-MAX tables appear to want to play most hands and will call with almost anything unless you hit a good run of cards and get them scared. Only then does the table tighten up a bit. It seems best to play your good hands fast, a set is often not recognised as such until you 3-bet the Turn. I will often CR the Turn with TP good kicker against (what usually turns out to be) someone playing either 2nd pair or TP and weak kicker.

I see no reason to follow the mantra of always open-raising as this just does not knock out the blinds - they ALWAYS seem to call - even 3-bets. If I am on a table like this I will limp with a lot more hands and then attack the flop if I hit. The players are not so stupid as to forget if you raise PF, and an A on the flop means you will get little action in those circumstances.

I have also found that you will be called on a ragged flop when you bet your overcards - by people holding a weak A or with any part of the flop. And with 3-5 people seeing the flop, chances are at least a couple of them have hit. Better to check/fold here IMO than keep chasing. Lots of people playing Q5o and A3o and your AK/AQ is gonna see 2-pair on the River when an A falls and you think you have won it.

I think a tighter and more aggressive table certainly demands a constant-aggression play but on the looser tables where bluffing is less effective (as they will call to the River with almost any flop holding pocket 33 or bottom pair) and more see the flop, I think you are getting paid plenty to keep a few in for when you hit your cards.

Anyway - good luck and this forum is a great place for learning, though as on the tables you will get the odd a-hole gobbing off at you for no reason other than to feed his ego... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Last night played a bit tighter, more like 45% of flops. Still not tight enough, so I kept going up 10 BB, losing it slowly, then going up again. Typical was the player to my left who always stayed in with any hand.

For example. I'm on the button, fish is UTG. He raised I reraised with JKs, he reraised and I capped. Flop comes JK2 rainbow. He bets, I raise, he reraises, I call. Turn is 3. He bets, I call. River is 8, he bets, I call. He turns over 88. Fortunately for me, there were many other hands where he folded on the river or I showed him down and he had the underpair. This kind of play seems fairly typical, but I'm still only 300 hands into my 6-max experiment (and up about 60 BB).

[Still the Spank E]

There could only be two things one might consider wrong with the way you played:

1. if you thought that playing some other way would have resulted in more money won; or,

2. if you played this way against players who WEREN'T paying you off and you failed to adjust

Short one of these--what could possibly have been wrong with the way you played?

[Inthacup]

1. if you thought that playing some other way would have resulted in more money won

A point of clarification: This is only correct if "more money won" is money won in the long run. By long run, I mean tens of thousands of hands. In the short run, anything can and will happen. Over the course of the session, he could have correctly folding junk hands that would have won him big pots. Does that mean he should play the junk? No. Make sure you clarify this statement or it will often be misinterpreted.




Cup

[naphand]

God - tell me about about it. Wait until you see guys who will cap the Turn heads up against you with nothing more than an inside straight draw (and they catch the damn card as well), many will do this with 4-flushers, presumably assuming they are some kind of favourite (and not 4:1 at all)!!

I guess we don't get to see their cards when they miss as it is natural to bet the River and they muck their cards.

Most of these guys will NEVER fold a pocket pair unless the board goes 4-suited or AAKK and a raise PF etc. (even then not often). /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

I must agree. Playing too loose worked for me, but only because I was lucky enough to hit a few times when I probably didn't have pot odds to justify even a semi-bluff raise. Now, if I found myself at similarly weak tables in the future, I would probably play almost this loose and just aggressive as I took a number of pots with crap.