Should I give it up?

[galypso86]

been playing since june 30 2003. I have now lost around $2300 and am wondering if i just aint cut out for this game. I lost around 1K b4 I got serious...played at party and u bet..I started only playing prem hands, and thinking back, i had a lot of luck at the start(even tho i lost 1K..lol)..some nites winning 400-500 on no limit..but after i got serious it seems i hit a bad streak(ie: 2 runs where i got very few hands to play period..80 hands at least both runs where i may have played 3 hands..just a couple of weeks ago i had around $800 in my accts and then i got beat with anything i would play..now i'm down to 0 and wondering if i'm just not cut out for it..yes..i did drink beer at nite but fared no worse than when playing in the mornings completely sober lol..pokertracker backed up my feelings that i just wasnt getting the hands..in tourneys i won the only $30 i entered and was in the money about %40 of the 5 and $10 tourneys i entered..anyone care to give me their gut feelings after reading this?..i appreciate it very much..sorry its so long..this is the best forum with the best players..thats why i'm asking you all..thanks

[harboral]

Glad to hear you are using poker tracker - beyond that, it is impossible to tell if you can play winning poker or not. If you are in the money 40% of the $5 and $10 entry tournys you are playing, then you must be doing something right.
I have played for 20 years - mostly winning (I keep very accurate records) and in November I lost 400 BB's. In Sept. and Oct. I won more than that, 10.3% of my hands and Nov. I only won 7.7% - so who knows, you might just be on a bad streak.

[FaF]

I have a question about Poker Tracker...how exactly do you use it? I downloaded it and want to try it out before i purchase it and can't figure out what i need to do to play with it. Thanks

[davidross]

If you love to play don't give up. I'd be curious to know how many hands you've played, and why you chose to start with no limit. I would suggest you play limit ring games until you get a better feel for your play. Understand in no-limit the better player has a much bigger edge over average players. Post some hands and let us see how you play.

[galypso86]

thanks for your replies...I will try to figure out how to post a few hands and get back tommorrow..continued good luck to David Ross..thanks

[squiffy]

Any activity takes lots of practice, study, and experience, if you want to succeed. If you have golfed, swam, bicycled, skate-boarded, played chess, played baseball, worked as a lawyer, or doctor, or engineer and then gave up AFTER JUST SIX MONTHS OR ONE YEAR because you weren't that good at it, or weren't as good as you hoped you would be, you would end up not succeeding at anything in life.

Your expectations may be too high. And you may be comparing yourself to people who have been playing for 5-10 years. Or you may be comparing yourself to people with more natural talent for the game, or people who study many more poker books than you. If you compare your running ability to Michael Johnson or Carl Lewis or your basketball ability to Michael Jordan, you are being unrealistic.

If I were you I would not quit. But I would drop down to the lowest limit offered online, to minimize my losses, and post lots of hands and do much more reading and studying.

I don't care what activity you are talking about. If you have only been doing it for one year, you just aren't that good at it. And you still have lots of room for improvement.

If you quit, you are doing yourself a huge disservice.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU HAVE BEEN TRYING HARD AND STUDYING CAREFULLY FOR TEN OR TWENTY YEARS AND STILL SUCK, THEN YEAH, GIVE UP IMMEDIATELY.

[Brian462]

I would also suggest sticking with 1 type of game(limit HE ring games probably would be best) so that you can direct your focus on a smaller field. Skipping around between limit, no limit, tournament, and ring games can really make it hard to develop your game (at least it was for me).

And as other suggested, keep very accurate records on poker tracker and post as many hands as you can here.

[MicroBob]

i am a bit baffled why you would think quitting is the preferred option as opposed to trying to figure out what holes in your game need plugging.

it shouldnt be a matter of 'i played and i lost, so i guess i'm not cut out for it.' if you are unwilling to study and improve your game then you definately are not cut out for it.

also, it soumds like you are possibly playing a bit higher than your comfort level.
play at the smallest levels, prove to yourself that it is a game you can beat....then move up to the next level. lather, rinse, repeat.

[morgant]

i dont think that you mention what stakes you were/are playing for..but you are aware of the swings in poker that plague even the best of the best. drop down in stakes and study/play/post. sounds like you started playing with real money while you were in the beginning learning stages of the game so of course you are going to lose some duckets. I did that same, i spent money learning the game when i could have done it the intelligent way and played for free or smaller stakes. either way you have been playing for a short amount of time and dont quit before the miracle happens. good luck
morg

[galypso86]

heres a few of my hands..the last hand is particularly the kind that put me out...what should i have done differently? thanks..i'm markroberts btw

***** Hand History for Game 240382479 *****
1/2 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT) - THU NOV 13 01:09:54 EST 2003
Table Card Room Table 765 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: markroberts ( $99.50)
Seat 2: Scatt44 ( $33.50)
Seat 3: littletech ( $10)
Seat 4: centrum41 ( $50)
Seat 5: ugasec ( $18.75)
Seat 6: Gestahl ( $20)
Scatt44 posts small blind (0.50)
littletech posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to markroberts [ Ah, Kd ]
ugasec calls (1)
Gestahl folds.
markroberts raises (2) to 2
Scatt44 folds.
littletech calls (1)
ugasec calls (1)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7h, As, Th ]
littletech checks.
ugasec checks.
markroberts bets (1)
littletech calls (1)
ugasec folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8d ]
littletech checks.
markroberts bets (2)
littletech calls (2)
** Dealing River ** : [ Kc ]
littletech bets (2)
markroberts raises (4) to 4
littletech raises (3) to 5
littletech calls all-In.
markroberts calls (1)
Creating Main Pot with $21.50 with littletech
** Summary **
Main Pot: $21.50 | | Rake: $1
Board: [ 7h As Th 8d Kc ]
markroberts balance $111, bet $10, collected $21.50, net +$11.50 [ Ah Kd ] [ two pairs, aces and kings -- Ah,As,Kd,Kc,Th ]
Scatt44 balance $33, lost $0.50 (folded)
littletech balance $0, lost $10 [ Kh 6h ] [ a pair of kings -- As,Kh,Kc,Th,8d ]
centrum41 balance $50, sits out
ugasec balance $16.75, lost $2 (folded)
Gestahl balance $20, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 261927503 *****
0/0 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (PL) - SAT NOV 29 16:20:45 EST 2003
Table Card Room Table 2859 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: markroberts ( $24)
Seat 2: Princess43 ( $12.50)
Seat 3: Freechill ( $22.80)
Seat 4: luxxur ( $20.50)
Seat 5: gaon285 ( $52.50)
Seat 6: ERGs_bluff ( $16.80)
Seat 7: shannon79 ( $8.50)
Seat 8: sashley511 ( $183.45)
Seat 9: OLDBUTGOOD ( $27.05)
Seat 10: The_SHARK ( $24.50)
gaon285 posts small blind (0.25)
ERGs_bluff posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to markroberts [ Qs, As ]
shannon79 folds.
sashley511 folds.
OLDBUTGOOD calls (0.50)
The_SHARK folds.
markroberts raises (1) to 1
Princess43 folds.
Freechill folds.
luxxur folds.
gaon285 folds.
ERGs_bluff folds.
OLDBUTGOOD calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6d, 6c, 2c ]
OLDBUTGOOD checks.
markroberts bets (0.50)
OLDBUTGOOD calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8s ]
OLDBUTGOOD checks.
markroberts bets (0.50)
OLDBUTGOOD calls (0.50)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2s ]
OLDBUTGOOD bets (3)
markroberts folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $7.55 | Rake: $0.20
Board: [ 6d 6c 2c 8s 2s ]
markroberts balance $22, lost $2 (folded)
Princess43 balance $12.50, didn't bet (folded)
Freechill balance $22.80, didn't bet (folded)
luxxur balance $20.50, didn't bet (folded)
gaon285 balance $52.25, lost $0.25 (folded)
ERGs_bluff balance $16.30, lost $0.50 (folded)
shannon79 balance $8.50, didn't bet (folded)
sashley511 balance $183.45, didn't bet (folded)
OLDBUTGOOD balance $29.60, bet $5, collected $7.55, net +$2.55
The_SHARK balance $24.50, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 261803336 *****
2/4 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT) - SAT NOV 29 14:40:51 EST 2003
Table Card Room Table 1617 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: markroberts ( $125)
Seat 2: Sandydollars ( $120)
Seat 3: Patience ( $96)
Seat 4: DanoRoo ( $57)
Seat 5: JJJLLLGGG ( $71)
Seat 6: Thndrhead ( $115)
Seat 7: Henshiwat ( $118)
Seat 8: miketheox ( $121)
Seat 9: TarponHunter ( $64)
Seat 10: lucky1956 ( $87)
lucky1956 posts small blind (1)
markroberts posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to markroberts [ Jc, 8c ]
Sandydollars folds.
Patience folds.
DanoRoo folds.
JJJLLLGGG folds.
Thndrhead folds.
Henshiwat folds.
miketheox calls (2)
TarponHunter folds.
lucky1956 calls (1)
markroberts checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Jh, 3s, Ac ]
lucky1956 checks.
markroberts checks.
miketheox bets (2)
lucky1956 calls (2)
markroberts calls (2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2d ]
lucky1956 checks.
markroberts checks.
miketheox bets (4)
lucky1956 calls (4)
markroberts folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ 7c ]
lucky1956 checks.
miketheox checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $19 | Rake: $1
Board: [ Jh 3s Ac 2d 7c ]
markroberts balance $121, lost $4 (folded)
Sandydollars balance $120, didn't bet (folded)
Patience balance $96, didn't bet (folded)
DanoRoo balance $57, didn't bet (folded)
JJJLLLGGG balance $71, didn't bet (folded)
Thndrhead balance $115, didn't bet (folded)
Henshiwat balance $118, didn't bet (folded)
miketheox balance $132, bet $8, collected $19, net +$11 [ Js 5s ] [ a pair of jacks -- Ac,Js,Jh,7c,5s ]
TarponHunter balance $64, didn't bet (folded)
lucky1956 balance $79, lost $8 [ Kh 5c ] [ high card ace -- Ac,Kh,Jh,7c,5c ]

[Peter G]

You have been playing 6 months and lost $2300, you should start from scratch and start at micro limits and work your way up once you have started beating that limit.

I didnt make a deposit for the first 6 months(Freerolls are everywhere) of playing until I was sure I could beat this game.And even then I was playing $1 to $10 dollar tournies, until I consistently beat that level I would not go up in stakes.

I have just done my first cashout from both party and pokerstars and wow what a feeling /images/graemlins/grin.gif Poker has just paid for xmas fantastic

[ChipWrecked]

I don't have the BR to play your limit online yet, but I've played long enough to know that holdem players love Aces and Kings. I keep 'plays any A' on my clipboard when playing Party micro 'cause I post that player note more than any other.

That said, your only mistake in hand 3 IMHO is not folding the flop. Or, bet out and fold to a raise.

[leon]

You haven't been playing long at all. And, you're honest enough to admit you're a losing player. These facts alone tell me you can probably make it in the long run.

First, answer this question- do you enjoy poker? If not, quit. There's plenty of things that will aggravate you less and cost less money to learn.

If the answer is yes, here's what I would do. Commit yourself right now to improving your game constantly. There is no such thing as the perfect player. Get a bankroll together and start small- I'm talking .5/1$ unless you can afford the stakes. Build up your bankroll, and don't move up until you set a predefined goal (say, win 200 big bets at the current level) AND you feel confident to move up. This should ensure you a) don't go broke, and b) garner the necessary skills to handle each level.

I'd stay away from NL and PL for a while. For one, these forms of poker place more emphasis on skills that beginners don't grasp immediately, ie situational experience and psychology. The odds of poker, by contrast, are bread and butter of limit play and can be learned in a day. Secondly, a mistake at NL/PL can be much more costly, and at a stage where your fledgling bankroll can least afford a hit AND you're more apt to make a mistake, it's asking for trouble.

I played for over a year before I started turning a profit. Most honest winners will tell you a similar story. Your story is pretty common I'd imagine- everyone THINKS they really know the game when they first start, and they can't imagine what's so tough. Now you know.

Finally, continue keeping records. The numbers don't lie. You'll see when you finally start to turn the corner. If you don't after another 6 months of good, honest play with study, well, then, maybe you're not cut out for this game. But personally I'd give it more time.

GL

Leon

[galypso86]

thanks leon and chip, very good advice and i appreciate it..u are both right..i can see i have a long way to go and i read the poker forums almost daily but dont ever see many admit they are losing or behind so i thought maybe i was one of the few..all of you guys who have posted to this message has pretty much convinced me that maybe i should give it a little more time..thanks to all

[MrBlini]

Hand 1: Looks fine to me.

Hand 2: Turn looks like a post-oak bluff. You're either showing your weakness here or you're trying to build the pot verrry slowwwwwly with a 6. Preflop raise makes a six unlikely, ditto a single duck. You could have a pair of ducks that you're playing verrry slowwwwly, but otherwise it looks like you're not so happy about your holdings. Some savvy opponents are going to bet into you with almost anything at this point. The 2 does make it look like the opponent made a boat, but it's possible he's just making a play.

I think it's actually less weak to check behind on the turn than to make a raise that betrays weakness, but I'm certainly no expert on PL or NL.

Hand 3: Any other flop action seems preferable to a check-call. You don't have an overcard kicker for your second pair, so it's not much of a calling hand. If you are going to play this like you are behind, which isn't necessarily a bad idea, you have at most 5 outs and mediocre implied odds. The pot is offering you 5:1. Time to fold. Looks like good table selection, though! Patience seems to think so.

[Oblivious]

Id say at least 60% of online players are long run losers. Your poker trackerstats should confirm this. I lost over $600 in my first year of brick and morter playing. I even lost a couple hundred online. But since August ive made it all back and more at Party/Empire. Even though im in the positive for my career, I still question myself after tough losing sessions.

What you need is a little economic disipline. Posters here say you require a 300bb bank roll for any limit. So put 300 in a party or empire account (get a deposit bonus from someone here) and play .5/1 ONLY. Dont play NL or PL, and play $5 sitngos just for fun, and only once in a while. If you get busted, take a break, and do some reading, then try agian.

Even if you are a hopelessly losing player (im not sure these types really exist), you wont lose too much at .5/1.

[MRBAA]

I think most players lose at first. I had played "fun" poker in nickel dime quarter home games for years before I sat in my first casino game. Over the next year, as I read books and "got serious" about poker, I lost about $2,000 playing (mostly) $1-3 stud and $1-5 stud. It's hilarious to me now remembering how I used to agonize over hands, strategies etc., especially for the 1-3 game. I got a lot of insight from posting here, reading and rereading books and, most of all, seeing what worked by playing. I've long since made back all my losses and much more -- to the point that I (as a recreational player) will probably never play poker with my own money again. Yet I still have losing streaks due to bad cards and sometimes bad play, too. If you have a friend who's about at the same point on the learning curve as you, I'd recommend strongly talking over hands with that person. You'll often see mistakes just by having to explain hands. I'd also recommend posting for the same reason.
And definitely read Lee Jones for HE and think about how his advice works (or doesn't) in different games you play in. Ditto Ciaffone and Brier. And, as other have noted, stay away from P/L and N/L. I think limit is easiest to learn, then try p/l .

[galypso86]

i want to thank all who have posted to my question..i havent seen one post that i didnt disagree with..that being said i guess the lower limits are where i will play for a while..thanks again and good luck to every one of you

[lefty rosen]

If you come back to the board in a few months(2 or 3) and say you are stuck at party's low limit games 3/6 or less and you are sticking to premium hands and draws when the odds warrant it, then you have a problem as this site has the consistently easiest games to beat.

[galypso86]

i agree..thats kind of what i'm worried about...playing bad with good cards or playing good with bad cards..hope its the latter but at this point i'm honestly not sure..i'm probably gonna give it one more shot at lower limits and then decide ...thanks