Blew it on the River?

[Brian]

Party 5/10. Dealt A /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif in the SB. Unknown limps in EP, folded to me and I complete, BB checks. BB is a pretty loose player (any Ace), but I have no reads on his post-Flop play.

Flop: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet, BB calls, EP calls.

Turn: K /images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet, BB calls, EP folds.

River: 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check, BB bets, I fold. I know that by checking I may have induced him to bluff, and I think I probably should've followed through with a call. Thoughts?

-Brian

[JTG51]

I know that by checking I may have induced him to bluff, and I think I probably should've followed through with a call.

I agree. It's rarely correct to check fold the river with a pair heads up after your opponent has just called you on the flop and turn, especially when an innocent looking card falls.

[CrackerZack]

it all read so well until, "I fold"

You check to induce the bluff, you did, call and pick it off. If you lose, so be it.

[AceHigh]

These small pots are always the most difficult I think.

Would it be better to check the turn and bet the river (and fold to a raise, unless you improve), no matter what? You aren't folding on the turn, so check/calling isn't bad. And betting out on the river makes it look like you improved.

[Brian]

Hi Zack,

I didn't really check to induce the bluff. But, after checking, I realized that it may have made my opponent bluff, and so maybe I should call. The problem is, the pot was so small that I did not feel like it was worth another big bet. I actually think perhaps my best course of action, for me, would have been to bet the River. I don't often bet the River "unimproved", and this would have been a prime spot to do so.

-Brian

[Brian]

Hi AceHigh,

I think that betting the Turn is the best course of action. I picked up many additional outs, and some people will call the Flop almost no matter what. Had I had a better read on my opponent and known what his "folding point" was, then perhaps check-calling with the intention of betting the River no matter what would have been best.

I agree 100% that the fact the pot is small is what makes the decision difficult. Were it larger, I certainly would have called.

-Brian

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that betting the Turn is the best course of action.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right, I would often bet the turn. But I think this shows how tough it can be to make good decisions with weak hands out of position against loose players. After you bet the turn then you need to bet the river and fold to a raise or check/call on the river against an unknown opponent.

*Sigh* I guess that's why Tommy Angelo likes to have the tight players have position on him.

I was thinking checking the turn might make a river bet look stronger. So if you check/call the turn and bet out on the river, your opponents might think you improved and fold a better hand than yours. If the turn gets checked thru, then a river bet looks like a Jack that was scared of the King and you might get a medium pocket pair to fold.

[chesspain]

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned the possibility of hero raising PF, if he thought he could get it HU with the limper. You would be a favorite over any overcards below Ax, and this would set you up to come out firing on any flop as a semi-bluff, with this looking like you have a big pocket pair.

Just something to think about.

[Jeremy'sSpoken]

Betting the river gives you the only real chance of winning the pot. I say bet and fold to a raise, same cost as check calling but you give him a chance to fold.

[ArchAngel71857]

Im glad you brought up raising preflop. i think you may be able to get away with it here.


Brian, I think you are right that you should rather bet the river, rather than check/calling. What was your read on him/her?


-AA

[WillMagic]

Betting the river seems like the best course of action. I didn't see this at first, but now that you mention it, it's definitely superior to your other options.

Will

[Brian]

Hi Chesspain and others,

I do not think that this would have been a good opportunity to raise pre-Flop. As I mentioned in my original post, the BB was a pretty loose player, so I think it's pretty likely he would have called my raise; however, even if I thought there was only about a 25% chance he'd call my raise, I still wouldn't do it. I had no read on the EP limper, and at best I am probably only a slight favorite over him. If he has any idea how to use his position well, then I could easily get myself into trouble by raising. I would only raise here if the conditions were pretty close to perfect, meaning a tight BB and a weak limper who gives up easily on the Flop.

-Brian

[LJH]

BRIAN. I DO NOT KNOW WHY YOU KEPT BETTING WITH AN UNMADE HAND, BUT YOU DID BLOW IT BY ASKING FOR A BLUF AND THEN FOLDING. LJH

[Brian]

Hi LJH,

The bet on the Flop was a semi-bluff, and was a great spot to do so IMO. The pot is very small and without many draws, so unless someone Flopped a pair, I am very likely to pick up the pot. And, even if I am called, I have 5 outs to improve + backdoor Flush potential.

On the Turn, I had indeed improved, and now likely had 15 outs to improve on the next card. Some people will call with anything, so I decided to semi-bluff again. Would you check and call here? I think that betting is *MUCH* better than check-calling. So I did.

On the River, I decided to give up my hand. He called my semi-bluffs twice, and while I do have a pair to take to the showdown, I did not think that the pot size, 6bb, was worth it. I did not think he would be bluffing 1 in 7 times, which is what I would need to make my call profitable.

-Brian