Are 40-50% of pot bets in NLHE/PLHE cash games the way to go in tight games

[Magician]

Hi,

I'd like some rules of thumb about the right bet size in NLHE/PLHE cash games online ($3/$6 NL/PL mostly).

I find that when I bet the pot that I get action only when I'm beat and that a bet that big has me trapping myself when I do get called.


Should I be doing the following:

a) If there are draws on the board, generally bet more (maybe 60-80% of the pot depending on how threatening the draws are)
b) If there are no draws on the board, generally bet less (40-50% of the pot)
c) If I am drawing to a flush and/or a straight and I am trying to build a pot against multiple opponents, bet small enough to get multiple callers but large enough to slow opponents down from raising
d) In these tight online games it seems the only way to get action is to bet 40-50% and hope to get called by hands that are good but probably losing but which the opponent can't bring himself to fold because the bet is small relative to the pot (I've found myself guilty of this type of call lately and have lost a bit too much money this way)
e) It's easier to get an opponent pot-committed with bets of 40-50% of the pot on the flop and turn - once he's called twice with a good but losing hand it's very hard for him to lay it down and he is more likely to pay you off further on the river (again, I've found myself on the wrong end of this too many times lately)
f) If I bet small with my made hands, it also enables me to get away with a lot of cheap bluffs

So what I'm saying is: perhaps in these ultra-tight online games with lots of slowplaying and trapping - maybe a standard bet size of 40-50% of the pot is the way to go.

Of course when you bet less (say 40-50% of the pot) you get less of your money in with the best of it then if you had bet more - but that still has to beat getting called only when you are behind.

[Zag]

f) If I bet small with my made hands, it also enables me to get away with a lot of cheap bluffs

Oddly enough, if you are betting small, then game theory says you should bluff less frequently. Of course, that is when you are against other people who are playing correctly, according to game theory. If they do not call often enough, then you should be bluffing constantly until they adjust.

So what I'm saying is: perhaps in these ultra-tight online games with lots of slowplaying and trapping - maybe a standard bet size of 40-50% of the pot is the way to go.

This isn't a bad conclusion. But the root of all your thinking should be "What mistakes are my opponents making, and how can I exploit those mistakes?" You already picked up on one, above, which is that they are too tight and can be bluffed too easily.

The other mistake they make, which is that they slowplay and trap too often, should give you another strategy: it means that you can typically draw more cheaply, because they will slowplay their big hands, allowing you to hang around on your unlikely draws. Of course, to prevent being trapped, you have to be drawing to the nuts. Therefore, I would limp with any suited ace, and even call a single raise with them in position (or out of position after I have limped).

If you flop a draw with it, you should just assume that someone else out there has a set and is looking to trap you. Make the same smallish bet that you make with a bluff or a made hand (above), and they will just call instead of punishing you as they should. Then check (or check-behind) on the turn if you don't hit, and you will often get a free river. Sometimes check in early position if you do hit it, because now the set will come alive, fearing that you have just picked up a flush draw. If you hit the flush and the board pairs, be very cautious about the trap and settle for a minimum win rather than pushing it.

[pemberton]

Ray Zee has an excellent post on this subject in the archives, you should be able to find it if you search the posts under "Older Archives". It dates from 18th Feb 2001. If you can't find it let me know, and perhaps I can repost it - I don't know what the etiquette for reposts on this forum is though, as I'm pretty new...?
There's a *lot* of very informative stuff in the archives...
Pemberton