KK UTG short handed.

[Duke]

10-20 with a half kill, but it's not currently a kill pot. Lineup is me and a bunch of old guys. Real old guys. It's 5 handed at the moment. I think they figured out that I had shifted gears.

I openraise UTG with KK, and get called by the cutoff and the button. The blinds fold.

Flop: K43r.

I bet, and they both call.

The turn is the Ace of rainbow. I check. CO bets, button raises, and I 3-bet. They both call.

River is a J. I bet. CO calls, button raises. I 3-bet. CO folds. Button 4-bets. I just call.

Comments? I'm thinking most about the decision to 3-bet the river, and the decision to check-raise the turn.

~D

[Inthacup]

I usually just bet out the turn and hope an ace now raises so I can 3-bet. I doubt it's going to get checked through, so if you think that these guys will just call when hitting their ace on the turn, I like the check raise.

On the river, what's the betting cap? I'm not ready to take my foot off the gas yet and certainly wouldn't just call his river raise. The 3-bet is standard, imo. You lose to AA, Q 10 and 2 5. The only thing he could realistically have is a slowplayed AA. Is the the type of player that is going to just call your 3-bet on the turn with top set?

[Duke]

Your thought process got me through the third bet, but he examined his cards and the board again before coming back over the top of me.

And the check was to induce bets from aces. Yes, I really thought he had either AK or AJ. Then he looked at his cards, and I got a little suspicious.

As for the betting cap, well, it's either 5 bets, or unlimited. I'm not sure, as 3 got to the river, and I haven't gone that many there.

~D

[Ulysses]

I'd bet out on the turn and hope to 3-bet.

I'd definitely 3-bet the river. I'd think a while and probably 5-bet the river as well. QT (the turn raise), 25 (the pre-flop call), and AA (not 4-betting the turn but 3-betting the river?) just don't feel right here. AJ seems more likely than those. But, then again, I might be so confused by all of this that I'd just call the 4-bet as well. Anyway, definitely 3-bet.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Check-raise three-betting the turn is fine, great, you only fear AA or a mostrously stupid str8. When you bet the river and get raised tho, I'd just call. Some monstrously stupid moron might well be fixin to show you a hand that will make you want a barf bag, which are generally not provided by the casino*.

al

*you can steal a few next time you are on an airplane, they often come in handy in these large pot situations

[Inthacup]

If he's a monstrously stupid moron, he could just as easily have 44, 33, AK or AJ. There are plenty of strong hands this guy could go to war with that KK beats. I don't like just calling the river raise at all.

I'm a little confused by all of this 'checking the hole cards' stuff, so I'm not sure I'd 5-bet, but the river 3-bet seems to be a no brainer.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I really thought he had either AK or AJ. Then he looked at his cards, and I got a little suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said in my original response, the 3-bet is clear. I'd be confused by the looking at cards and 4-betting. Wait a sec. Is this maybe one of those rare opportunities to pull off an Angelo-style 5-bet/fold to a 6-bet?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this maybe one of those rare opportunities to pull off an Angelo-style 5-bet/fold to a 6-bet?


[/ QUOTE ]

call me conservative but this will never happen with me in a pot.

al

[Duke]

I think that for me it would have been more like his "6 bets and I still didn't find the fold" story about taking AAA up against 25. So I figured I'd lose the minimum.

~D

[stripsqueez]

i didnt like the turn check raise - i view this as an issue of how much respect you have for these guys - if you have little respect for them and they are reasonably aggressive i think the check raise is ok - against decent players given your posistion and earlier betting they are a good chance to throw away a pair of aces for the turn raise - it looks a lot different if you bet out and 3 bet a raiser

stripsqueez - chickenhawk