No Limit hand to analyze

[Gator]

Here’s a hand that’s really been bothering me – was I outplayed or was this just bad luck? Playing NL $50/max buy in on party - blinds are .50/$1.00. I have just arrived at table (with $50). MP player that I know nothing about has about $40. I’m in the big blind. EP, MP and LP each call. I have AT suited in the Big Blind so I raise to $3. EP folds, MP calls and LP folds. Flop is A Q 8 rainbow. About $9.50 in the pot – I bet $6. MP calls. Turn is a 4 yielding a board of (A Q 8) 4. I think I would have heard from AK or AQ by now so I feel pretty good about my hand and bet $10 into the pot that is now at $21.50. MP player calls. River is an 8 – (A Q 8 4) 8. I feel even better about my hand as the eights should take care of most kicker problems – maybe we’ll split with Aces and Eights and the Queen kicker. I bet another $10. MP player goes all in for $21. I figure he’s probably expecting the same split I am and I call. He turns over 8 6. My smallish kicker kept me from being more aggressive earlier (heck, he should never been in after my pre-flop raise). Anyway, thoughts on this hand please. Thanks.

[crockpot]

I have AT suited in the Big Blind so I raise to $3.

you make this sound like a cause-effect scenario. in the big blind, your reason for making a raise should not be "i have the best hand, since they all limped". it should be one of:

- i want to steal the pot right now.

do you really think they'll all fold for $2 more? if so, you play on a different party poker than i do.

- even though i'm out of position, my hand is so strong that i want to build a big pot with it.

ATs definitely does not fit this criteria. it is basically a drawing hand without enough high card strength to bulldoze, and drawing hands lose a lot of value when they are out of position.

- i want to make the pot a little bigger so the reward for stealing it on the flop is more.

if you think you have good control over your opponents, then this can be a legitimate reason to raise. however, this play is much better when you have position.

on to your hand...

heck, he should never been in after my pre-flop raise

if you want players to fold, raise more than $2. i'm very surprised that anyone folded to this raise, let alone two players. apparently they have a lot of respect for you, and are limping on incredibly weak hands.

My smallish kicker kept me from being more aggressive earlier

you hit one of the top 20% of flops your hand could ask for. if you can't feel good betting it now, why raise preflop? if your hand isn't good enough to be aggressive with, it loses a ton of value in NL.

I feel even better about my hand as the eights should take care of most kicker problems – maybe we’ll split with Aces and Eights and the Queen kicker

now you're putting your opponent on precisely AJ or A4, which is not that likely. it is much more likely that this card hurt your hand (because he has a worse kicker than yours) than helped it.

how should you play the river? that's pretty much player dependent. against someone who will call with a queen here, go ahead and make a moderate bet, maybe $10. against an aggressive player who may bluff with a JT, check and hope he bluffs. an all-in is virtually never correct since he will only call if he ties or beats you.

to answer your question, you weren't outplayed (just outdrawn), but you didn't play it particularly well. i recommend you find a good no-limit resource (i have a short beginner's guide on my website) and study it. try ordering a copy of pot-limit and no-limit poker by reuben and ciaffone.

[nicky g]

Your opponent played badly and sucked out. I think your flop bet is fine in relation to the pot size; your turn bet is a bit weak -I'd bet more relative to the pot in that situation, or check.

That said raising from the BB with ATs is not a good move. AT is either going to win you a small pot or lose you a big one unless you hit the flop pretty hard; it's got an advantage in being suited but it's a long shot to hit a flush or flush draw so you'd prefer to see a cheap flop as far as that aspect goes. You're out of position, which means you'll be betting into the dark on all rounds, not sure if your kicker or even your hand is any good. Your bet is too small to knock anyone out so you're simply building the pot with a weak hand out of position, which is a bad idea; if you are going to raise, though I'd recommend against it, make a big raise to take it down there and then, and shut down if you get called.
Keep the pot small so you can get away from your pretty feeble hand if there's any significant post-flop action. You want a hand you can play confidently post flop to build the pot preflop; you can rarely do that with A10.

[Gator]

I've posted hands on 2+2 several times and almost always get great advice. What's the right way to show my appreciation to the posters? If I post a thank you, is that considered clogging up the board? Should I PM the posters that really put forth effort in reviewing the hand? I feel ungrateful doing nothing? What's the proper play here?

[nicky g]

I think an all expenses paid trip to Vegas would cover it /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I usually write a quick post to say thanks to everyone who responded; I don't think it's considered cloggin up the board. As far as thanking me goes, I post a lot more hands asking for advice than I respond to - that is I get a lot more out of this board than I put in, which is cheeky but on the other hand I don't have as much to offer as other posters - so i don't feel a great need to be thanked. But I'm glad you appreciated the post.

[Zag]

I think that you get more genuine responses if you don't post the results in your initial note. It isn't that people are being dishonest, it's just that it is very easy to think, "yeah, that's what I would have put him on."

If you do wait to post the results, then this gives you a great opportunity to add some appreciative notes, as well.

And by the way, crockpot's note above is spot on. You should come back in a week and read it again, just to make sure you've gotten the 6 or 7 really good points in it.