TT in the BB: How did I do?

[ResidentParanoid]

SB is good overall tight aggressive player.

Online 15/30 (10 handed)
ResidentParanoid has T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is BB

EP2 limps, Button folds, SB raises, ResidentParanoid 3-bets, EP2 folds, SB caps, ResidentParanoid calls

Flop(9 SB): 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB bets, ResidentParanoid raises, SB 3-bets, ResidentParanoid calls

Turn(7 1/2 BB): 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, ResidentParanoid checks

River(7 1/2 BB): 5/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bets, ResidentParanoid calls

[astroglide]

i would bet the turn here. if he's checkraising, congratulations. you still can't hand out a diamond here.

[trillig]

I think that one was not worthy of raise pre or post flop with TT.
TT is not good enough for me to reraise a known tight player.

Too many ways to be beat in there, flush, 7 for a straight and any pocket, JJ-AA.

And after the turn, why check it if you are raising pre and post flop and representing that you have a killer hand, that is the mode you should stay in.

Just my barely awake opinion at the moment. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-t

[ResidentParanoid]

SB capped pre-flop. He 3 bet again on the flop. Either a bigger pair than mine or big flush draw like AKs. Any ideas on what else he would play this way? When the diamond comes on the turn, I really don't like my hand much anymore. I check figuring I'll spend my one more BB on the river if needed. If that's my read, should I have folded the river?

If I had AA or KK or maybe QQ, then I'd bet the turn.

[ResidentParanoid]

[ QUOTE ]
And after the turn, why check it if you are raising pre and post flop and representing that you have a killer hand, that is the mode you should stay in.


[/ QUOTE ]

With the flush draw having come on the turn, and the cap pre-flop and 3-bet on the turn from the villain, I decided it was time to slow down.

[trillig]

I figured that was it, I'd continue to put presssure on other player though...

It has lots of later play implications possibilities in your favor (at least to me) if you press him strong.... he might think again next time when he clearly has you whipped...

Not every dollar ventured and lost means $ lost in the long run. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-t

[ResidentParanoid]

[ QUOTE ]
TT is not good enough for me to reraise a known tight player.


[/ QUOTE ]

With first raise from villain pre-flop, he could have a variety of hands. I want EP player to go away if I play. I don't want to fold. I must raise, right?

[ResidentParanoid]

[ QUOTE ]
It has lots of later play implications possibilities in your favor (at least to me) if you press him strong....

[/ QUOTE ]

That was part of my thinking pre-flop and on the flop. But after getting hit over the head a few times, I decided I had made my point.

[trillig]

If I am going in with TT or any smaller pair, and these days JJ-22 are the same to me (almost) I want more players in actually for a big hit... and then autofold on flop if no Ten hits or obnoxiously good ten flop like QJ9 hits the board, since my TT cuts odds of others having one let alone with another high card, down severely.

-t

[ResidentParanoid]

Are you saying it's better to call the pre-flop raise, then

1. fold on the flop since I missed my set

or

2. raise the flop to protect my overpair?

[trillig]

You had to press all the way, your check showed weakness and now he bets into you on river, typical... of course he might have been check-raising you if you bet, but if you are going to press, press the hardest, otherwise bail out early and save bets for better opportunies...

-t

[ResidentParanoid]

My check on the turn is me bailing out, basically. I suppose if that's my read I should fold the river, but that seems really weak to me.

[trillig]

I'd have just called the PF raise, SB capped that so I have to assume a very good hand with no other info.

Tough situation with the flop, SB has been representing AA or KK to me with his bets.

If his bets and the flop were different then option 2 yes, but the way it was, I'd just call him at this point after the flop, no raise there, he capped PF, give him some credit... I don't need to take all his money at once or burn off up money on 1 hand. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

What was the result anyhow? 8)

-t

[trillig]

Yeah final call on river is called for there...

I was just pointing out, if you wanted to give the illusion that you had an even better hand with that board, continue betting into him when he checks...
You are in deep already... this might be your only out...

Taking a shot at taking down the pot then and there, and setting him up for maybe a free river showdown if you'd rather not bet the river.

WHAT WAS RESULT? 8)

-t

[rory]

I think I like to bet the turn here-- I will fold to a raise and check/call the river (or value bet if you think he will call with A high) if an A does not drop. I can see him 3 betting the flop on a wide variety of hands mainly because of the two flush cards. He bets, you raise, he reraises with his AKo not wanting to give you a cheap draw to your flush. His check on the turn might mean a check raise, but I doubt it. You didn't cap the flop so he has no reason to think you are going to come out betting the turn if he checks. Either he is trapping you and you can safely fold to the raise or he doesn't have anything except A high. Either way you have to bet-- you can't give him a free shot at his overcards or his fourth diamond. I'm expecting this guy to turn over AK or AQ and for you to take down the pot.

-rory

[nykenny]

is this a short hand game? if not, why wouldn't u just call him the whole way (from flop on) provided the board is not too scary? what can u really beat that SB would cap before flop with assuming he is typical (since u didn't decribe him), 99? AKs wrong suite? AKo?...

i would be very surpprised if he turns over a small pair and lose to you, unless this is a very short handed game or he is a certified maniac.

Kenny

[rharless]

I think betting the turn is better. That way you don't risk a free fourth diamond.

In the heat of battle, I would probably then check the river, because every time someone plays like this on early streets I automatically put them on big pair /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Thinking about it here, though, it seems unlikely that AA-JJ would check-call the turn, despite the diamond board. That is, if I were AA-JJ, I would not slow down on the turn, specifically because I don't want to give YOU the free diamond. And if I had a diamond, all the more reason to keep on betting.

So if you bet the turn and are called, and are checked to on a non-diamond, non-A/K river, then I think you will win more often than not and should consider betting again.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to fold. I must raise, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
wrong. sometimes u can call and see the flop and then decide what to do.

Kenny

[ResidentParanoid]

Game is 10 handed. I think a smaller pair is very unlikely after the flop 3-bet.

Pre-flop cap and flop 3-bet made a believer out of me. Should I have folded on the river after letting it check through on the flop? Should I have folded to the flop 3-bet?

[nykenny]

i am predicting that paranoid won with TT. SB actually had 99 without 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. /images/graemlins/grin.gif but honestly, 90% of the time in this situation, SB would turn over better hand than TT.

Kenny

[ResidentParanoid]

Suggested course of action: I call pre-flop. After that, say on the flop, EP checks, villain bets, now what? I have much less info to work with, and the pesky EP to deal with.

[rharless]

3-bet preflop for sure. SB (TA) will raise with many hands to get headsup against the EP limper and get rid of the pesky BB. The majority of the time you want to play SB headsup.

[ResidentParanoid]

You didn't cap the flop so he has no reason to think you are going to come out betting the turn if he checks.

I 3-bet from the BB pre-flop, he capped it.

I raised and re-raised the two opportunities I had until I slowed down on the flop.

Would he 3-bet overcards on the flop very often here unless he also has the flush draw. He definitely 3-bets bigger pair.

[ResidentParanoid]

exactly my thinking pre-flop.

[ResidentParanoid]

Because of all the information I gathered pre-flop and on the flop, I think a check-raise is very likely on the turn and I just check behind. Although I don't like giving a draw to the fourth diamond on the board (which is the only thing that makes it even a close decision for me) I thought I was most likely behind on the turn.

[ResidentParanoid]

Board is [4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I have T/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.

SB has A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for the big flush on the turn.

[rharless]

I guess I just don't think it's common for someone to cap preflop, 3-bet the flop, and then go for a turn check raise. Usually someone sets up a turn checkraise by simply calling your flop raise.

[rharless]

Next time, try to catch a T on the river. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Too bad about the hand. (I'm still surprised that he attempted a c/r on the turn after 3-betting the flop, but so it goes.)

[nykenny]

i think u can fold to flop 3 bet.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Suggested course of action: I call pre-flop. After that, say on the flop, EP checks, villain bets, now what? I have much less info to work with, and the pesky EP to deal with.

[/ QUOTE ]
if u simply called before the flop, then you must raise on the flop in this situation against most players (SB). because you don't want QJ, KQ, KJ to call if you were ahead. and because you want to find out early if you are beat. and of course you will get reraised, and again, u can fold against most opponents. anything SB can reraise on the flop with is a favorite against you unless he is bluffing with AK, AQ wrong suite. AA-JJ, AKs, AQs (even KQs) are all favorite against you to win on the river.

Kenny

[rharless]

With a pair already on the board on the flop, you are actually a favorite over AKs/AQs/KQs (a small favorite, but a favorite).

[Paluka]

I think you are more likely to be winning this hand when he bets the turn than we he checks the turn. The check just looks like a monster hand to me.