busted straight draw call the river?

[george w of poker]

party 2/4 i've only seen one orbit

i have 65s on the button

3 limpers to me, i limp

flop comes 447 two diamonds not my suit

big blind bets, 3 callers, i raise 3 call

turn: 9 not a diamond
checked around, i check

river: 5 not a diamond
big blind bets again and its folded to me

there are 7.25 bets in the pot and i'm thinking he either has a 7 or is bluffing. without a read on him should i call?

[Bob T.]

Against most players, I think you can fold here. You will usually see a bigger pair.

[george w of poker]

i folded, but it made me wonder how big the pot needs to be to call. is there a rule of thumb for how often average people bluff? i know this doesn't look like a bluff, but just in general. i know my question is horribly broad and open ended so i expect equally open ended answers /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[lil']

I'd fold. He bet into a large field twice, he's got something.

[hockey1]

I don't understand the flop raise. It's certainly not a value raise against a paired board and a flush draw, and you're not bluffing anybody out here. If just one of the other three is on a flush draw, then at best you've got 6 outs. You barely have the odds to call -- and that assumes no set/full house draw -- let alone raise.

[kiddo]

There is a good rule: If you dont know what to do on early rounds: fold. If you dont know what to do on river: call.

Loose calling preflop is the start of a big problem. Loose calling on river is normally no problem at all.

[kiddo]

At a passive table that often will check to you on turn if you raise flop this is a an easy raise.

Also: if someone hit a good hand like trips or a full house they will normally go for a turncheckraise at small limits, you check behind, they bet river and you fold, loosing nearly nothing but getting to see 2 cards.

[astroglide]

i think an okay rule of thumb would be that if it's heads up on the river, you're closing the action, and there's a decent amount of money in the pot you should call any time you suspect you'd be motivated to make a 'should i call here?' post on 2+2

[hockey1]

[ QUOTE ]
At a passive table that often will check to you on turn if you raise flop this is a an easy raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buying a free card isn't likely to succeed against 4 others with a pair on the board. And even if it did, it doesn't do much for you when others have better draws. Dump it.

[James282]

6 outs to a weak draw makes me get the heck out of here. A raise sucks here because a slowplayed trips will pop the heck out of you if you raise, or you might just get a raise from EP if he already has the trips. If I had something like A7 or an overpair, you can be guaranteed I would reraise what looks like an obvious free card play. Worse case scenario is, EP raises and clears the field and now you are paying 3 bets to draw against fewer opponents. In short, there are much better draws to be followed and played for free cards, you can safely muck your 56 here in my opinion.
-James

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had something like A7 or an overpair, you can be guaranteed I would reraise what looks like an obvious free card play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you played a lot at Party Poker 2/4? I have done about 300 hours at those tables (not a lot, thats not my point and mostly in august (when I needed $)) and in my experience what happend in this hand - everyone checked turn to our flopraising hero - is what happens very often, giving you a good prize for your draws.

I guess we agree on that this is a good flop raise IF, AND ONLY IF everybody normally (or at least often) calls flop and then checks on turn.

And i guess we also aggre that if players play like you (for example reraising flop or calling and betting out on turn when drawcard doesnt hit) its better to fold this "probably 6 outs" draw.

It looks like disagreement is more on how loose/passive Party Poker $2/4 game is, then on how to play holdem???

By the way: If you had overpair or A7 on this 744 flop you would raise flop, since everybody called big blinds bet I guess you were big blind or folded preflop /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[kiddo]

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