OIC December – final details (long)

[Gaming Club]

Hi all. Here’s the final details (free money stuff is at the end so that we can get you to read the rest as well /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

Starts
Tuesday 2nd December @ 00:01 EST

Ends
Monday 22nd December @ 23:59 EST

Prizes
First to get to $2k gets:
$500 cash
Engraved trophy
Digital camera
Also:
$100 per head freeroll for those that make it to $2k
3x daily $50 prizes – see registration page for details
Subject to how well Sunday’s TYVM HU NL Freeroll goes we may run this event again as well; either way we’ll find a way to get another set of 500 embossed clay chips into the prize structure

Registration
Go to www.gamingclubpoker.com/oicreg (http://www.gamingclubpoker.com/oicreg) (might not be live yet when we post this - will be shortly tho) and provide us with the following details:
Your 2+2 alias
Your 2+2 home forum
Your GC alias
Your GC account number
Your email address for in case anything goes wrong with your registration application

Rules
Same as before (we'll post them separately to avoid this post getting any longer than it has to). Please of course remember to keep accurate records of your non-OIC BR and to make updated declarations as and when necessary. Declarations can again be made at www.gamingclubpoker.com/oic (http://www.gamingclubpoker.com/oic).

Work commitments have unfortunately forced Jason to excuse himself as adjudicator for the event this time. If you have any uncertainty regarding the rules however, post them on the zoo and MH or any of the elder statesmen here will no doubt help clarify things for you.

Sponsorship of starting $50 OIC BR for eligible players
As per the last event, first-time OIC players get $50 free to play in the OIC. This amount is independent of the standard $15 free for all new accounts. Restrictions on cashout are explained on the registration page for the OIC bonus and on the claim page for the $15 bonus. For those of you who haven't read our previous posts, we have removed virtually all documentation requests for cashouts (see our post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=373784&page=&view=&sb =5&o=) on this for more), so don't worry that you'll get the runaround when you try cashout.

Players who played in the previous event will also get sponsored the $50 if they raked at least 300 hands during the previous event (the leaderboard page still shows your raked hands count if you’re uncertain).

Registrations will be accepted at any time during the course of the event, but only the first 500 first-time players will be credited with the OIC bonus. Please allow up to 1 working day to receive the bonus so that we can have time to ensure that multiple registrations are filtered out.

RAF bonuses
Given the previous messy experience with the RAF, we have changed the RAF process so that you can’t get the $50 OIC bonus and the standard $50 RAF bonus as well. Letting this happen last time made the event financially very shaky for us, and the manual hack processes we had to implement to make it work caused no end of trouble and grief (just ask Homer how long he had to wait /images/graemlins/smile.gif).

However, we’ve put a process in place with Cup whereby you can still get his $50 kickback if you’re opening a new account. PM Cup for further details.

Please be aware that we won’t be entertaining any retrospective crediting of this bonus like we did last time (that was also a disaster all round /images/graemlins/frown.gif), so please make sure that you follow Cup’s instructions exactly. He will give you a link to visit – please don’t post it publicly since if that happens we will have to close it down in order to prevent abuse.

Other forums
We'll be posting details on RPG, and have also added UPF to the list. Our post on UPF isn't going to be much more than listing a cross-post to this one, so if any of you want to reduce our SSQ (Spam Suspicion Quotient) there by backing up how worthwhile the OIC is we'd appreciate it. Any other suggestions for forums we should add will also be welcomed.

.... that's everything (we hope) ... of course we're around if you have any questions or comments.

Good luck to everyone who takes part, and please remember to give us lots of open and honest feedback (we can handle it, even the bad stuff /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[Gaming Club]

This is an extract from Jason’s rules post (with credit to Mike Haven) from early November (with edits as noted)

“As was mentioned before this is a self-paced, honor bound, educational endeavor. To make sure that everyone is on the same page there are a few rules that everyone is expected to follow:
…
The game is Limit Hold'em, but it is the player's decision to choose between full-ring, shorthanded, or heads-up tables. No tournaments.

You will begin with a $50 bankroll that you will keep separate from your regular bankroll for purposes of the OIC. You do not literally have to clear your account of everything save $50, but you must keep accurate records of the $50 bankroll you have set aside for the challenge. [GC edit: you then need to subtract your OIC BR from your total BR to determine your non-OIC funds, which you must then declare at www.gamingclubpoker.com/oic] (http://www.gamingclubpoker.com/oic])

You will progress in limits according to the following structure (Limit Hold'em):
-----> Start at .50/1 with $50 and play until you have $100.
-----> Move up to 1/2 and play until you have $200.
-----> Move up to 2/4 and play until you have $300.
-----> Move up to 3/6 and play until you have $500.
-----> Move up to 5/10 and play until you have $1000.
-----> Move up to 10/20 and play until you have $1500.
-----> Move up to 15/30 and play until you have $2000.

IMPORTANT If at any point your bankroll drops below 25 BB's for the current level you are playing, you MUST drop down to the previous level and work your way back up. This is designed to prevent anyone tilting away a large pile of money. If you find yourself in this situation take a break, examine your play, and then drop down and work your way back up...remember you are honor bound to follow this rule.

Any bonus money received beyond the original "sponsorship" $50 should be NOT be included in your OIC bankroll. [GC edit: This applies equally to any purchases or cashouts you make – you must adjust your non-OIC bankroll for these amounts, and not just for your play at non-OIC tables or limits]

Multi-table play is allowed, but not encouraged (the whole point is to gain solid experience). If you choose to multi-table you may only have money equal to your OIC bankroll in play at any given time. (i.e. if you had $120 in your BR you could buy into 3 tables for $40 each)

Anyone who participates may choose to quit the challenge at any point. The purpose of the challenge is to gain experience with limited risk; however, it is utterly foolish to get yourself into a situation where you are uncomfortable or don't have the best of it. Don't be stupid, there is no shame in quitting early.

The above statement is not an excuse for bonus abuse. Those who take the free $50, but then quit because 1/2 is "too hard" are idiots and will be dealt with accordingly. If you take the free money you are expected to give it a fair and honest effort.

The OIC was originally created by Mike Haven and is not affiliated with 2+2.”

[HavanaBanana]

Be sure to put in the corrolary about what limits you can play with you bankroll, as a player with 1050$ should not be able to play 3 games of 2-4 to get to 2000 less volatile than playing 10-20.

[Gaming Club]

[ QUOTE ]
Be sure to put in the corrolary about what limits you can play with you bankroll, as a player with 1050$ should not be able to play 3 games of 2-4 to get to 2000 less volatile than playing 10-20.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there's general agreement on this then no problem -- Mike, maybe you care to comment?

[dangolf]

TGC,

Are you, or will you make any sort of exceptions for folks who had difficulties early in the last OIC? For example, a certain player that I know, was just starting to play HE online, and joined the OIC last time, and busted out rather quickly.

My point is that these originated to help folks learn, and it did that very thing, but at what point will someone who busted quickly be allowed to jump back on the bandwagon.

BTW, my friend had 256 raked hands during the time span. Please, don't mention this to him. He's kind of embarassed about busting out so quickly.

dangolf

[Stew]

You know I don't mean to be a deek (or maybe I do) but do you really expect them to take exceptions to their requirements? I mean do you know how much money they have unloaded in the way of RAF and sponsorship bonuses for the OIC. If they make an exception for your "friend" then they have to make an exception for everyone.

They are being generous enough in giving another sponsorship to those that played last time, regardless of the minimum raked hands requirement.

Which, reminds me, I need to make another post.

[Stew]

All the prizes they are offering for this event. A digital camera, $500 to the winner and four $50 prizes daily.

Anything else you want, oh yea some really nice freaking poker chips, oh you can win that too.

[morgant]

as you way overstepped your bounds, i will do the same. why do you care if he is asking the GC for something on his friends behalf...it affects you in no way whatsoever, are you the GC's public defender, i think they can handle this request without your input.

[Stew]

I didn't over-step any bounds first of all, this is a public forum and I can speak my mind if I wish. So, let's get that straight. I don't think you have over-stepped your bounds at all, as you are doing the same.

I just find it completely assanine that someone has the balls to ask for more, more, more when a site like GC is already giving so much.


If you have a problem with that, fine, but too f'ng bad, b/c it won't keep me from speaking up my mind.

What's going to happen is these sites (True, GC and any others) that are even considering offering this forum some extra value will stop b/c it will become too much of a headache for them to tell people no when they have set guidelines.

If you have a problem with me defending a site like GC or True that is giving the members of this forum a ton of added value to have experiences like tourneys and contests such as the SS/True challenge and OIC then deal with it, b/c these are the sites that deserve someone stepping up and praising them.

What have Party or Paradise or UB ever done for this forum as a whole. Now, I have never had a problem with those sites and that's where I play most, but to have someone bite a hand that is feeding them is outrageous and yes, I will speak my mind. I am perfectly aware that GC and True and any site can handle their own business professionally, courteously and without any assistance from myself or anyone else on this forum, but some words in their defense from someone completely objective to the situation is always helpful.

[dangolf]

Really, Stew, to put it mildly, screw off. If you don't want people around that may donate to your cause, then fine. I just asked as I busted out before I could clear the 300 hands last time, and would like a chance to try again. I thought that the whole point here was to give people an opportunity to learn about their game at different levels, as well as give TGC some input. I really think that they put the 300 hands requirement in to keep players from coming in and clearing the free money then bailing with their winnings, not to punish someone like me who wasn't able to hold their own last time. I've learned a ton since then, and would welcome the opportunity to put it to the test. If TGC doesn't feel like this is a just question then let them respond, no one asked YOU!

dangolf

[dangolf]

And to respond to your post to Morgant, this isn't about MORE, MORE, MORE...it was just a question, and I believe a fair one at that. I bet if you cleared 300 hands, then you'll have no problems taking the free money, huh?!

Oh, and for you information, I still have money at TGC, and will continue to play there no matter what the response.

dangolf

[Stew]

You have a chance to try again, deposit your own $50.

Read the freaking rules, you only have to play 150 to clear the $50 sponsorship money. I'm sure they put the 300 in b/c they want to do this on a somewhat continual basis and that will keep people from playing just 150 and cashing out the 50 and repeating the process.

So, put your $50 in, try to last a little longer this time and then next time you will be eligible for sponsorship.

And like I said, I don't give a flying F if you asked me or not, I don't know where you live, but I live in the United States and we have a little ammendment that protects freedom of speech.

[wdbaker]

All,
this is way off topic and should definately have been taken up personally with the Gaming Club and not here in a public forum.

So what i'm saying is Dangolf should have either pm'd GC or e-mailed.

Stew and Morgant, you have just taken it farther off into the wild blue yonder.

This started out as a gracious announcement by GC and ended up like this /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I hope they delete the last nine posts, including mine, for the good of all

Just one persons opinion and yes I know i have just added to the mess /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[morgant]

first off, dangolf i am defending you and in no way said that you were assking for more more more. obviously stew is the conscience of the entire online poker community and feels that he knows what is best for a casino website that is so graciously giving us money with no personal stake at all. the dude is a newbie he busted out and would like another shot, WHY DO YOU CARE? why make him feel like crap about it and burn him down.....you are in a win win situation i imagine as you are already going to receive the bonus, as am i, but i would rather more people get the bonus than less. i just dont understand the logic in defending these sites that are already making money off of us(not you and me specifically, dont get your panties in a knot about that one, but the general online gambling community). Since you are so ethical in your online pursuits, do you bonus whore? do you use affiliate rake rebates, what other rules do you break? let the kid get as much as he can out of them, he is not scamming just wants another honest attempt at the OIC and improving his game....go bark up another tree.

[alekhine8]

Thanks for setting this up and giving us all $50 to play the OIC again.

One comment. The new upgrade with the four color deck is great. Is there an option to change the color of the opponent's cards (the back of them), similar to PartyPoker?

Even better, you guys could design your software so that the end user could change the colors and make their own template/color scheme. Im not a huge fan of the green, but its ok.

[dangolf]

Stew, Why the hell didn't you make a post like this to begin with and point out the fact that a person can sponsor themselves??!! Why did you have to belittle me??!! I would be more than happy to try again with my own money, but didn't see that as an option. You jumped to the conclusion that all I wanted was cash. I get the feeling that you may be the type of person that bitches about the lack of fish at a site, then berates someone when the calls your raise with 64o preflop then draws out on you.

I too live in America, and understand the concept of free speech, but fortunately my Mother taught my some manners, and to get the whole story before I jumped off into something.

I understand that you appreciate what TGC has done, and I do to, you would have known that if you would have given a civil response the first time and allowed me a chance to expound on the situation.

[dangolf]

wdbaker,

I agree this has gotten off topic, but I asked publicly should anyone else be in the same boat. I know that others busted out rather early as well. I apologize to the forum for perpetuating this, but still feel like the original post could be addressed on the forum as it may affect more people than just myself.

Once, again I'm sorry for MY behavior.

dangolf

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
first off, dangolf i am defending you and in no way said that you were assking for more more more. obviously stew is the conscience of the entire online poker community and feels that he knows what is best for a casino website that is so graciously giving us money with no personal stake at all. the dude is a newbie he busted out and would like another shot, WHY DO YOU CARE? why make him feel like crap about it and burn him down.....you are in a win win situation i imagine as you are already going to receive the bonus, as am i, but i would rather more people get the bonus than less. i just dont understand the logic in defending these sites that are already making money off of us(not you and me specifically, dont get your panties in a knot about that one, but the general online gambling community). Since you are so ethical in your online pursuits, do you bonus whore? do you use affiliate rake rebates, what other rules do you break? let the kid get as much as he can out of them, he is not scamming just wants another honest attempt at the OIC and improving his game....go bark up another tree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re-Read my previous post, my feelings are very clear there. I have never signed up at any site through an affiliate or used a rake rebate program. Bonus whoring yes, of course, if sites are giving away money for you to play there, you are an idiot not to take advantage of that. There's also nothing against the rules about either situation btw. But, this is a completely different story, or is that too hard for you to grasp.

As far as "I don't understand the logic of defending these sites..." The sites that are posting here and providing added value for the things they are offering to this forum deserve defending, if you have a problem with that, then you are out of your mind.

As I said, re-read my entire post and you will clearly see why I spoke up.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Stew, Why the hell didn't you make a post like this to begin with and point out the fact that a person can sponsor themselves??!! Why did you have to belittle me??!! I would be more than happy to try again with my own money, but didn't see that as an option. You jumped to the conclusion that all I wanted was cash. I get the feeling that you may be the type of person that bitches about the lack of fish at a site, then berates someone when the calls your raise with 64o preflop then draws out on you.

I too live in America, and understand the concept of free speech, but fortunately my Mother taught my some manners, and to get the whole story before I jumped off into something.

I understand that you appreciate what TGC has done, and I do to, you would have known that if you would have given a civil response the first time and allowed me a chance to expound on the situation.



[/ QUOTE ]

Well good for you and your mother.

I apologize for not realizing you were just wanting a shot at the OIC again and not necessarily just the $50 sponsorship. I had just signed up at the above-referenced sign-up page where it indicates there that you can of course participate in the OIC challenge without the sponsorship money if you participated last time with the sponsorship money, but didn't play in the requisite 300 hands.

So, with that said, i do apologize for jumping to that conclusion.

[rusty JEDI]

Regarding the debate some of the people are getting into. I think that it would be a great idea for GC to give everyone who busted out of the OIC without making 300 hands another "free" shot. I would certainly rather play them than Stoneage on his free entry despite walking out Multiple thousands ahead. I think giving second entry to those who busted out last time is directly within the spirit of the OIC. (Giving those less fortunate a shot)

[Gaming Club]

[ QUOTE ]

dangolf
Are you, or will you make any sort of exceptions for folks who had difficulties early in the last OIC? For example, a certain player that I know, was just starting to play HE online, and joined the OIC last time, and busted out rather quickly.

My point is that these originated to help folks learn, and it did that very thing, but at what point will someone who busted quickly be allowed to jump back on the bandwagon.


[/ QUOTE ]

dan,

Unfortunately we have to draw the line somewhere, and 300 raked hands was the number we chose. In truth even that number is rather low if we look at it from a pure profit perspective, since it takes somewhat more raked hands on average per player to pay back the cost of free money, prizes, etc.

However, we've tried to factor in some of the (non-monetary) benefits of the event for us, hence we took a more generous view on the cut-off point than would be justified in purely monetary terms.

For this reason, it's very hard for us to justify making exceptions to the rule, so we'll have to say no unfortunately.

We're of course more than happy for your friend to take part in the event using his own funds -- he'll still be eligible for the prizes and will certainly learn as much (if not more /images/graemlins/smile.gif) from the experience by doing so.

PS we're not going to comment on the brouhaha that erupted between you and Stew and morgant, other than to
(a) apologise for not responding to the question earlier, which might possibly have prevented the whole mess, and
(b) say that if Mat is reading this we'd appreciate it if he were to follow wdbaker's suggestion of deleting the off-topic posts /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

alekhine
Thanks for setting this up and giving us all $50 to play the OIC again.


[/ QUOTE ]
Pleasure, altho "us all" should strictly speaking be "some of us" instead /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

One comment. The new upgrade with the four color deck is great. Is there an option to change the color of the opponent's cards (the back of them), similar to PartyPoker?

Even better, you guys could design your software so that the end user could change the colors and make their own template/color scheme. Im not a huge fan of the green, but its ok.


[/ QUOTE ]
Nice suggestions - thanks. We'll pass them on to Prima.

[CrackerZack]

TGC,

First, thanks again for your generosity. I personally think another OIC so soon is a bit too quick but if the support is there, go for it. My 2+ cents...

Questions:
Why are you asking home forum? Will the leaderboad be 2+2 forum specific or for the entire site?

With incorporating UPF and RGB, will there be extra checks for possible cheating? I've never been to UPF but RGB is a wasteland and I'd have trouble trusting anyone that posts their regularly that isn't a big name or a golden oldie. I guess the same could be true here but its seems the comraderie here seems to keep people in line a bit.

Comments:
As for the other stuff in this post. I personally think TGC has been tremendously generous with setting this up twice, the final prizes, daily prizes, etc. No need to make exceptions for RAF and 2nd free $50, etc etc. I understand people have unique circumstances, but a line needs to be drawn. kudos.

Suggestions:
First, please, for the love of god, allah, buddha, whoever, add a "remember my password" box to the leaderboard. Maybe I'm the only moron that only has my pgc######## in the original email from signing up, but cutting it out that URL every time is horrific. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd type it in once or twice then I'd probably have it memorized but alas, I am. Plus since we have to login everyday, this is screaming for a cookie to remember our password.

Second, daily prizes and their statistics should be on each days leaderboard. For the person with the biggest place movement put their old position and new position, same with balance... daily leader should be obvious unless leaderboard is broken down by forum, then it should be listed. I'd also be prepared for a number of emails/PMs asking to investigate daily prizes as I just see too many people either cheating, or thinking there is cheating on these. I could be wrong, but its something to think about. Besides, StoneAge probably made an extra 5-6 hundred in these prices alone.

Ok, that's it for me. Cool stuff and hopefully I'll be able to be as involved as I was in the last one. I planned on continuing with the last until I got to 2K but since a new one is starting, maybe I'll just cash out a decent sum and start anew.

Zack

[pokerwhore]

I agree the 300 raked hands is still too generous. You have to draw a line somewhere and 300 raked hands is more than fair game.

[jasonHoldEm]

Hiya,

Just wanted to say thanks for the effort you guys are putting into another OIC. I like the idea of expanding it to other forums, I'm all about adding more fish to my diet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I hope that adding additional forums won't cause any additional headaches for you.

I also wanted to explain why I'm not going to act as "judge" for this event. For the most part I think we've worked out the majority of kinks during the last event, so hopefully any new issues that arise can be dealt with by simple common sense. I also have recently started a new job ( /images/graemlins/frown.gif ) and my work scheudle is really playing havoc with my playing time.

I do look forward to playing in this event, something that I didn't get to do much of last time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh yeah, and as someone who had 277 raked hands last time...I think 300 is more than fair. To be honest, the fact you're giving additional $50 to some people is over the top IMHO. So thanks even though I didn't make it.

Peace,
J

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm the only moron that only has my pgc######## in the original email from signing up, quote]

Nope you're not. You are right it is a pain in the a$$.

Nice suggestions, we have similar concerns.

Peace,
Joe

[HavanaBanana]

Go to cashcheck, it will tell you in your statement.

[MrFroggyX]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />

dangolf
Are you, or will you make any sort of exceptions for folks who had difficulties early in the last OIC? For example, a certain player that I know, was just starting to play HE online, and joined the OIC last time, and busted out rather quickly.

My point is that these originated to help folks learn, and it did that very thing, but at what point will someone who busted quickly be allowed to jump back on the bandwagon.


[/ QUOTE ]

dan,

Unfortunately we have to draw the line somewhere, and 300 raked hands was the number we chose. In truth even that number is rather low if we look at it from a pure profit perspective, since it takes somewhat more raked hands on average per player to pay back the cost of free money, prizes, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hi! I got thinking... Why not change the raked 300 hands under the OIC timespan to an "unlimited" timespan? Then the people that busted out before the 300 hands still have an chance by completing there hands (eg buy in wih little cash and make the raked hands).

Then it would be a little more in the spirit with the OIC beacuse it was all about learning and make progress with you game whitout having to risk you own bankroll...

And i have to admitt i saying this for my self... /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Beacuse i got into the OIC qutie late and diden't have so much time to play as i would and only raked about 230 hands... But after the OIC completion i have played lots off raked hands... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you should change the rules to something like this then the people that are serious and would play for the fun and experience would have an second chance and the people that only are here for the free money would go away...

Anyway thats my 2 cents.

[Mike Haven]

Be sure to put in the corrolary about what limits you can play with you bankroll, as a player with 1050$ should not be able to play 3 games of 2-4 to get to 2000 less volatile than playing 10-20.

i'm not sure that i understand your concern, Hav

----&gt; Move up to 5/10 and play until you have $1000.
-----&gt; Move up to 10/20 and play until you have $1500.

if you have $1050 you have to play 10/20


Multi-table play is allowed, but not encouraged (the whole point is to gain solid experience). If you choose to multi-table you may only have money equal to your OIC bankroll in play at any given time. (i.e. if you had $120 in your BR you could buy into 3 tables for $40 each)

if you had $1050 you could buy into three 10/20 games at once with $350 at each table - you couldn't buy in to any 2/4 tables

please let me know if i've missed your point

thanks

[HavanaBanana]

look at this link please

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=406069&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp;o =&amp;fpart

[CrackerZack]

there should be a clause about game availability though as often there is no 5-10 or 10-20 going. you should be allowed to step down one level if no game is going at your level.

[Mike Haven]

thank you

PO added this to the Rules:

A player may drop down to the previous level at any point provided that his bankroll is below the entry level for his current limit, and that he returns to the higher limit once his bankroll is above the entry point. The player can only drop down 1 level at a time and must keep his bankroll within the appropriate range.

Of course, there is always one situation overlooked when you are trying to add any new Rule, and Fraubump seems to have hit a very rare exception when she said :

In my case I went from 5/10 and 500 to 173, which is conceivably in a range as low as 1/2. I have chosen to interpret my situation as that I should play 2/4 until I get back to 300 and then 3/6, etc.

Normally, Fraubump should have lost a maximum of 25x10 =250 and gone back to 2-4 with 250. If Fraubump's last hand at 5/10 happened to be a big loser and she went from say 253 to 173, then in my opinion she should have started again at the 1-2 and moved up to 2-4 when she reached 200. (My reasoning for this is that at the instant of changing limits she did not have enough money to enter a 2-4 table, (ie: she had less than 50x4=200)).

I would prefer it if PO's Rule, with PO's permission, was amended slightly to:

A player may drop down to a previous level at any point provided that his bankroll is below the entry level for his current limit, and above the entry level for the nearest lower level.

This is certainly what I had in mind originally, and I hope the new Rule, (if accepted by PO), covers all eventualities.

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
In my case I went from 5/10 and 500 to 173, which is conceivably in a range as low as 1/2. I have chosen to interpret my situation as that I should play 2/4 until I get back to 300 and then 3/6, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

In this case when she drops from 5-10 it should be to 3-6 because 25*BB(6) = 150 and she would still be above that, then when she goes below 150 she should go to 2-4.

My problem with these rules is that they are difficult to make clear, and lots of interpretations can be made.
I would have preferred that one had to stay at the limit one was playing with mandatory going up or down at different level.
Pure and Simple.

I mean if one player reaches 510 thereby being able to to play 5-10 , then drops back to lets say 400 and with these rules he could go play 3-6 if he wanted. As he also could be playing 5-10 does this mean he could chose to go back up to 5-10 if he is feeling for it even though he hasn't been able to reach 500 again?

I'll play with any rules as long as they are made up front, what i do not like is rules open to interpretations after the fact.

I understand that some SS players are attending too... better make it SSimple!!! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
Normally, Fraubump should have lost a maximum of 25x10 =250 and gone back to 2-4 with 250. If Fraubump's last hand at 5/10 happened to be a big loser and she went from say 253 to 173, then in my opinion she should have started again at the 1-2 and moved up to 2-4 when she reached 200. (My reasoning for this is that at the instant of changing limits she did not have enough money to enter a 2-4 table, (ie: she had less than 50x4=200)).


[/ QUOTE ]

If you get 210 and get to play 2-4 then drop down to 173 you are not required to play 1-2 (until you get down to 100) so why possible should one have to drop to 1-2 in this particular case? just because you drop multiple levels?
And how will the REC crew with Mr. Georgiev up front understand any of this? Wonder how many accounts he has set up to cheat us all in winning this allready? /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Mike Haven]

it's now a 50 big bets game

if you have 50 big bets for the next level, you move up

so to get to 3-6 you have to have 50x6=300

Fraubump had 173 so she couldn't have moved up to 2-4 (50x4=200) if she had been at 1-2

my point is that at that one instant of moving to a new level, up or down, you must look at the balance in your oic account and act as per the scale - not say "oh, i could have been in the 2-4 game having lost some chips but not 25x4=100 chips to force a move down" just because you are moving down

if my suggested amendment is agreed with PO it is explicit and can't me misinterpretted, in my opinion (whether or not everyone agrees with the Rule is almost by the by - as long as all Rules are exact and we all act in the same way in accordance with them, including the RGP guys, then we have a level playing field)

[jasonHoldEm]

[ QUOTE ]
A player may drop down to a previous level at any point provided that his bankroll is below the entry level for his current limit, and above the entry level for the nearest lower level.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...do you see why I don't want to be judge anymore? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I think Mike's rewording of the rule is essentially perfect. The reason I think we should allow "voluntary" drop downs is mainly for the newbies who get themselves into the higher limits and start freaking out about taking a big loss. It will allow them to drop down (one level) to where they might be more comfortable and gain some more expereince/confidence as they work their way back up to the higher level again.

My thinking is that instead of "forcing" a player to play at a higher limit until they lose a certain amount of money they might be uncomfortable with (i.e. when they've reached the entry point, started a session, and lost money to a point they are now below the entry point again), they can bounce back and forth for awhile until they gain more expereince/confidence and perhaps successfully complete the challenge instead of dropping out because of getting discouraged. Obviously they would have to be below the entry point for the higher level in order to drop down to the lower one...they couldn't be winning at 10/20 and drop down to 5/10. Mike's rewording of what I originally wrote is much better and is what I meant in the first place.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jason

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
You will progress in limits according to the following structure (Limit Hold'em):
-----&gt; Start at .50/1 with $50 and play until you have $100.
-----&gt; Move up to 1/2 and play until you have $200.
-----&gt; Move up to 2/4 and play until you have $300.
-----&gt; Move up to 3/6 and play until you have $500.
-----&gt; Move up to 5/10 and play until you have $1000.
-----&gt; Move up to 10/20 and play until you have $1500.
-----&gt; Move up to 15/30 and play until you have $2000.


IMPORTANT If at any point your bankroll drops below 25 BB's for the current level you are playing, you MUST drop down to the previous level and work your way back up.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
if my suggested amendment is agreed with PO it is explicit and can't me misinterpretted, in my opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets say a player has reached 300+ and thereby the 3-6 level.
He plays there but the cardGods are not nice so he loses down below 25*BB (150) lets say 137.

Now the rules you are stating are contradicting eachother, you have made up a new rule in opposition to the original rules, this was the reason I suggested strict and clear moving up and down rules in those old posts.

You better make a chart where it explains at each dollar amount from 0 to 2000 what to do when coming from all possible levels, atleast 0-50 will be easy /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[HavanaBanana]

I didn't see an answer to this question of mine:

[ QUOTE ]
I mean if one player reaches 510 thereby being able to to play 5-10 , then drops back to lets say 400 and with these rules he could go play 3-6 if he wanted. As he also could be playing 5-10 does this mean he could chose to go back up to 5-10 if he is feeling for it even though he hasn't been able to reach 500 again?


[/ QUOTE ]

[Mike Haven]

you are right to push for explicitly worded Rules, especially as a lot of money could rest on the result of how someone interprets them if they could be argued to have two meanings

when we were working on them initially, the somewhat arbitrarily selected "25 big bets" was, as i know you realise, purely and simply to put a reasonable and formal brake on the possibility of tilt, or even merely an unlucky session at the wrong table, dropping all a player's hard-earned winnings down the drain

you have picked up some mathematical flaws in a Rule that was intended to embody the spirit of the oic, and thank you for it - better now, in preparation, than later, when $1000 may be at stake

PO and i will chat again, and we'll try to tie up the loose ends, and let you know the corrections, as soon as possible

[Mike Haven]

I mean if one player reaches 510 thereby being able to to play 5-10 , then drops back to lets say 400 and with these rules he could go play 3-6 if he wanted. As he also could be playing 5-10 does this mean he could chose to go back up to 5-10 if he is feeling for it even though he hasn't been able to reach 500 again?

yes, he could drop back to 3-6

no, he could not move up to 5-10 until his balance returned to 500

i believe very strongly that he can only sit at a table, if he has changed levels, if he has 50 big bets at that level as long as that is the highest level that he can sit at using the 50 big bets rule

[HavanaBanana]

Thats great Mike /images/graemlins/smile.gif
You are enabling many players to try playing outside the box they are 'safe' in, did you also read about Felicia Lee's live 'OIC' at the Bellagio?
Was great cameraderie at the first OIC, believe it or not, I also chatted with a few SS'ers!

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

better put a little 'Mike Havens Decisions are final' at the end of the rules /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Will be fun to see how the tables fill up now with 700 OIC'ers GL to all!

[HavanaBanana]

was browsing RECpoker:

[ QUOTE ]
this is copied from the rules that gaming club posted on 2+2. one
thing i will have to check into is the nl/limit thing. i called last
night and support told me n/l and p/l were ok but the more i read
these rules the more inclined i am to believe that it is strictly
limit.

there is still time to register. www.interne(cutoff)topenchallenge.com



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if it is, but it looks like an affilliate redirect to TGC/OIC signup page?

If it is, thats the kind of undercover affilliate business I despice.

Btw, normal to wonder if it is NL or PL when it specificly says Limit in the rules lol
Better tilt your tables towards the wall and hide under them, the REC are coming!!

[Gomez22]

Havana -

Are they really that bad? What's the deal with recpoker? Since I'm relatively new here, I have no idea why they're knuckleheads, but so be it.

'Mez

PS - I checked out their......... ummmmmmmmm....... well, I guess you could call it a forum... kinda crappy, if you ask me.

[gabbyyyy]

I mean if we all played over 300 hands why would be need to get the bonus for decemeber also? Obviously if someone busted out they would have not played that many hands.

I know in my case I have played around 270 hands busted out and am ineligable. That just seems awful, and takes away from the spirit of the OIC.

You cannot treat everyone, as if they are going to get the bonus and cashout right away. In my case I wagered about $1500.00 from my bonus, and for that I am ineligable for the Decemeber OIC bonus.

Does not seem very fair to me. I will always praise things that I feel are fair. I must however, point out instances of policy that are manipulated in a unfair way.

For all we know management of the gaming club had a look at, the average number of hands one played who got the bonus in novmember, After those statistics they saw that the average OIC participant had played 250 hands. So what they did was made the requirement above average (300), so they would virutally not have to give the bonus away twice to one person. Just my thoughts here.

[GuyOnTilt]

Gomez,

I don't know if you remember, but I took a week-long field trip to recpoker.com (RGP) a while back. Great experience. [insert sarcastic smiley here] I'd rather be a zoo'er than an rgp'er (though it's pret-ty close /images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

GoT

[Gomez22]

I can respect your thoughts here, but you seem to forget everything that TGC is doing for us, and has done for us with the previous OIC. They also mentioned that the first 500 to register get the free $50, so I really don't think you have anything to complain about. If you don't meet their requirements, you don't meet their requirements, case closed. You still can get the free $50 by being 1 of the first 500 to register, Stop whining and register early. And stop bashing TGC /images/graemlins/mad.gif - they've done more for 2+2 than any other site, haven't they? I don't ever remember seeing a Party spokesperson, or anyone from Paradise, Stars, UB, or any of the other countless poker sites here, let alone any who never fail to reply (on a public forum, mind you) to our questions and concerns. Personally, I think TGC has almost bent over backwards to kiss our asses, and, even though I don't like putting it that way, I am VERY grateful for everything they have done.

Also - If you busted early in the first one, you still had the option to continue with your own funds - they made it possible to get $115 in extra bonuses BESIDES the OIC $50 one........ If someone didn't take advantage of that, I don't know what to say about that - it;s their own fault.

[HavanaBanana]

I feel it is VERY fair that you arent in this time gabyyyyy(y)(y)

Do you have as many names on each site as you have here?

[Gomez22]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather be a zoo'er than an rgp'er

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, dear god....... that says it all!!!!! Can it really be that bad? I shudder at the thoguht!!!

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
Havana -

Are they really that bad? What's the deal with recpoker? Since I'm relatively new here, I have no idea why they're knuckleheads, but so be it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Spammers, KOOKS, and some seriously mentally ill people.
Some are good posters, but they also keep on stealing or counterfitting eachothers names so hard to take anything seriously there.
One guy is rambling on and on about how he is cheating online and live, and I even believe that one of their members got caught in a tree outside a casino dealers house naked with a magazine in one hand....
No Joke!

[GuyOnTilt]

I even believe that one of their members got caught in a tree outside a casino dealers house naked with a magazine in one hand....

What thee?

GoT

[Jackal22]

I did not participate the first time around, and I just signed up with TGC, and signed up on the OIC page. When will I find out if I am one of the first 500? I have not received an email or anything about OIC, although I have gotten emails from TGC about my new account there.

[crazy canuck]

Good lord it is so unfair to get some free stuff and then nothing. Also, it is very unethical that they are trying to make some profit. I'd be happy to see a poker room host this thing without the bonuses.

[gabbyyyy]

I do not see by having a couple different names on two plus two, has any bearing whatsoever on this subject. I was NOT banned or anything of the nature.

Some of you really enjoy nitpicking at little rediculous things, and feel by doing so makes your point more justified.

To me, the Decemeber OIC is meaningless if I cannot participate in it. I am sure there are many others like me who are just 20-30 hands away, and cannot get the bonus.

I guess we all have the right to our opinion. I was just stating a rebuttle to the poster who said. "we all get to do it again".

I like the gaming club, I also like the fact that the manager comes on here. It really says a lot about the site. It is just that I feel in this case the requirements are a bit too steep, and do not go with the true spirit of what the OIC is about.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not see by having a couple different names on two plus two, has any bearing whatsoever on this subject. I was NOT banned or anything of the nature.

Some of you really enjoy nitpicking at little rediculous things, and feel by doing so makes your point more justified.

To me, the Decemeber OIC is meaningless if I cannot participate in it. I am sure there are many others like me who are just 20-30 hands away, and cannot get the bonus.

I guess we all have the right to our opinion. I was just stating a rebuttle to the poster who said. "we all get to do it again".

I like the gaming club, I also like the fact that the manager comes on here. It really says a lot about the site. It is just that I feel in this case the requirements are a bit too steep, and do not go with the true spirit of what the OIC is about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey dumbass, you can participate in it. Have you read the whole thread? Front your own $50 and you are good to go.

As far as the "true spirit" of the OIC. It isn't about trying to needle your way into a free fifty dollars, last time I checked.

Are you the same one who started this whole discussion stating you were xxx number of hands short and wanted to participate and then didn't understand why you couldn't? Then, when it was clear you could if you put up your own fifty dollars you were OK with it.

Now, you are back whining as to the fact that you aren't eligible for the 50 dollar sign-up bonus?

This is the exact gd point I was making. The whiners are going to ruin the perks that sites like TGC and True are doing for this forum and they are going to shut it down.

[itsmarty]

[ QUOTE ]
To me, the Decemeber OIC is meaningless if I cannot participate in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can participate in the OIC whether you get the bonus or not, and quite possibly meet the requirements to get the free $50 the next time TCG hosts one.

Would you rather they gave $50 to everyone without restriction, thereby losing enough money to halt the promotion, or would you rather they keep things at a rate they've determined is sustainable and have a shot at getting the bonus every time they host an OIC (monthly, from the sound of things)?

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not see by having a couple different names on two plus two, has any bearing whatsoever on this subject. I was NOT banned or anything of the nature.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, with your style of posting you got to expect some pokes, hope your ranting here makes makes your marriage a better one, so you don't have to complain as much at home.

[ QUOTE ]
To me, the Decemeber OIC is meaningless if I cannot participate in it. I am sure there are many others like me who are just 20-30 hands away, and cannot get the bonus.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh but Gabby, you CAN participate!! and still get a nice overlay on your own 50$ invested, havent you seen all the <font color="red">P<font color="3652"></font>R</font><font color="blue">I</font><font color="orange">Z</font><font color="1147">E</font><font color="red">S</font> ?

You know it TGC decided to make the cut at 263 you wouldn't have said a single word, it's all about GABBYYY GABBYY GABBY isn't it? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gabbyyyy]

"Hey dumbass, you can participate in it. Have you read the whole thread? Front your own $50 and you are good to go. "

BLAH

"Are you the same one who started this whole discussion stating you were xxx number of hands short and wanted to participate and then didn't understand why you couldn't? Then, when it was clear you could if you put up your own fifty dollars you were OK with it."

The answer is no!

"Now, you are back whining as to the fact that you aren't eligible for the 50 dollar sign-up bonus?"

BLAH BLAH BLAH

Does it make you feel better to insult others on the internet? I bet you do not act this way in real life, do you? Big internet tough guy you are, calling a complete stranger a dumbass. You should be very proud of your current use of brain power.

Your argument was basicly that, I am a dumbass, and a whiner.

Perhaps you can locate the last remaining intellect you have and actually come up with a logical counter-argument.

[MrFroggyX]

Ohh!!

People really gets upset about this thing i see... lol

I was in the OIC before and diden't make it to the 300 hands but it's allright.. I have learned lots off things!

Anyway i understand why the TGC has set the min off 300 hands.. And i'm totaly fine with that! How can i really complain when i got the money in the first place?

I will get into the OIC regardles if they change the rules to something like my suggestion in my previous post or not.. Beacuse i really like the ide!

And i will not have any hard feelings for anyone if they dont.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Take care!

/Nic.
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
"Hey dumbass, you can participate in it. Have you read the whole thread? Front your own $50 and you are good to go. "

BLAH

"Are you the same one who started this whole discussion stating you were xxx number of hands short and wanted to participate and then didn't understand why you couldn't? Then, when it was clear you could if you put up your own fifty dollars you were OK with it."

The answer is no!

"Now, you are back whining as to the fact that you aren't eligible for the 50 dollar sign-up bonus?"

BLAH BLAH BLAH

Does it make you feel better to insult others on the internet? I bet you do not act this way in real life, do you? Big internet tough guy you are, calling a complete stranger a dumbass. You should be very proud of your current use of brain power.

Your argument was basicly that, I am a dumbass, and a whiner.

Perhaps you can locate the last remaining intellect you have and actually come up with a logical counter-argument.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't need to come-up with any counter-argument. I already proved my point and apparently it was crystal-clear to you.

You are a dumbass and a whiner.

[BigBluffer]

Someone posted earlier that they received an error message about an invalid account number when registering for the OIC. I just had the same problem. I know my account # starts with tgc. I have used that number successfully for all transactions with TGC. However, in the OIC registration, I must change it to pgc for the registration to go through.

Now I'm wondering if my registration is actually valid, and when I go to check the leaderboard during the contest, what account number should I use?

Why in the world won't the registration software recognize my tgc number? The poker room has no such problem every time I log in.

Also, are we supposed to receive a confirmation email when we register for the OIC?

Anyway, looking forward to the new OIC.

BB

[gabbyyyy]

Do you realize you used OIC 4 times in your post. Just wanted to point that out.

[pokerwhore]

It is just that I feel in this case the requirements are a bit too steep, and do not go with the true spirit of what the OIC is about.

[/ QUOTE ]

True spirit of the OIC was to use your own $50 .

[gabbyyyy]

Whatever you say.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Zack

This was something I thought about suggesting last time around (I spent countless hours in 3/6 which seemed to be the worst affected level). However, I've changed my views on it now - its just unworkable.

I think the lesson I learnt from my final day result was that I can afford to be a little more patient in waiting for games to start. It probably cost me at least two 'relegations' getting tangled in heads up play when trying to start tables at 3/6 and 5/10. This time (assuming I get there) I'll stick around and wait, even if it means not playing for a day or so.

Good luck - hope to see you soon at the usual tables! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Sherriff

[mrpurple]

I'm in. Just downloaded the software and am going to give it a try as a sideline to my regular online play.

[acrylic48]

Sounds great!
Can't wait to get started

[mrpurple]

actually I'm out. I poked around a little and don't like the software. I'll stick to stars and party.

Good luck to all who undertake the challenge.

[Stagemusic]

I cannot believe some of the crap I have been reading. TGC is offering A LOT!!! and if you got the free $50 last time and didn't play well enough to rake 300 hands...sorry. The original idea by Mike was to give newer players the opportunity to invest only $50 and move up to levels of play that they would normally not experience. It was meant as a tool for teaching. NOT BONUS WHORING. Good Lord people.

The November OIC was a great experience for me. It really DID help my game. Here is a quick overview of the results.

1. I started playing online in April
2. I had never cashed out at a site in my life
3. I had deposited over $1000 in various sites

In November at the TGC alone and due to the OIC
1. I played over 850 raked hands
2. I cashed out over $400 into my personal bank account
3. I also placed $100 each into two other sites
4. I still have over $150 dollars left on the site.

None of this includes the amount I have grown the bankroll the other sites just over the past couple of weeks. I would have placed in the top 10 for November but the lure of the cashout was too great. I will not be cashing out from the OIC funds this time.

Mike, Jason, TGC...Thanks. You have improved my game by leaps and bounds due to your dedication to selflessly helping other players grow.

To the rest of you idiots...Get a freaking life.

[Gaming Club]

Quick heads-up to all .... we see that this thread has grown quite a bit since we last posted on it, so we've got quite a few points to respond to.

Today tho we've spent most of our time making sure the OIC is ready to start, and also cleaning out the backlog of PMs we had + attending to some of the other shorter threads here, so we haven't had a chance to even read thru this thread yet.

We'll do out best to answer / clarify / whatever as required either later today or else tomorrow. Apologies if anyone was hoping for answers before then.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
It is just that I feel in this case the requirements are a bit too steep, and do not go with the true spirit of what the OIC is about.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OIC is about letting people get experience playing higher limits than their bankroll would normally allow.

I haven't participated because it's not something I'm interested in spending time on, but I have read these threads and it's clear that TGC has provided a great fun opportunity to many people on this forum.

It's really shocking to see a post here saying "These guys are unfair. They gave me $50 (or $100 or $150 or whatever) for free, but now they won't give me another $50 for free."

Really one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen here.

I think TGC has come up with a great promotion here and it's great that so many here have been able to take advantage of it. Good luck to both the OIC participants and TGC.

[goodguy_1]

I agree Stage .This give me something for free attitude is ridiculous.TGC guy and TGC have put up with alot to enable OIC-nov and again OIC-dec.I thought for sure with all the hassles TGC would not follow it right up again with another OIC.TGC spends alot of time and effort on this..and some guys are carping about not getting enough freebies.

This is a good way to improve your game.I only played like 10 hours of OIC-Nov...always at like 5am est after my regular grind but it's a great challenge and alot of fun.I would like to try and play more of OIC-Dec.I didnt play the 300 raked hands from OIC-nov like 170..so I will have to use my own money but so what ..it's the challenge and the learing experience that matters not the free money.

If you want free money hoebags it's all over the place..if you want to work on your game OIC is fun and cheap!!

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
Starts
Tuesday 2nd December @ 00:01 EST


[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing at planet and recognized an OIC player from November, he said he was up 10$ in DEC OIC, well, it hasn't started yet, I wasn't able to tell him cause he left.
if anyone see cparsley let him know lol

[KJP]

Is www.gamingclubpoker.com/OIC (http://www.gamingclubpoker.com/OIC) open for login yet? Or does it open up @ 00.01 EST?
im geting this error message:

We can't match the details you have given
with what we have in our records.
Either your forum alias
or your account number
or both have been incorrectly entered.

[KJP]

[skaboomizzy]

I'm leading some rookies into the OIC this month... what's the minimum amount of raked hands before they can cash out? 150 or something?

[GrinningBuddha]

You can't cash out the promo $50 until you've scored 150 raked hands. I don't know if any money won with the $50 is under the same restriction...

[skaboomizzy]

150 raked is all the answer I need. Thanks!

[BBill]

I am also getting the following error when entering non OIC bankroll at the OIC leaderbpard site. Any ideas ?


We can't match the details you have given
with what we have in our records.
Either your forum alias
or your account number
or both have been incorrectly entered.

[bigjay]

Got that earlier but seems to be working now.

[BBill]

I think this error occurs if you have the "Bank" window open in tgc displaying the bankroll info while registering. I closed that window and the registration worked.

BBill

[HavanaBanana]

And we are OFf! Gl all /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Hirez]

How exactly do you find out how many raked hands you played? i've looked all over and can't find it.

[CrackerZack]

It should be just above the leaderboard. I'm at work so can't login now but it was there for november.

[Gaming Club]

Hi all

Apologies for the delay in our response to this thread. We’ve been somewhat busy preparing for the event just started, and the announcement of it also led to us being bombed with PMs which have taken some time to work thru (there are a bunch more new ones since we logged on; we may only get to some of these in the next couple of days since we’re giving thread catch-up a higher priority, so if your query is urgent please call our support desk).

Nonetheless, herewith our views on some of the issues raised since we last posted. As always, comments / questions / suggestions / etc much appreciated.

[ QUOTE ]

CZ
First, thanks again for your generosity. I personally think another OIC so soon is a bit too quick but if the support is there, go for it.


[/ QUOTE ]
Pleasure. Part of us agrees that it’s a bit too soon, but in the end we went for it since the recent (small) software upgrade meant we were very keen to get as much feedback as possible.

[ QUOTE ]

Why are you asking home forum?


[/ QUOTE ]
The principle reason for this is to introduce an element of competitiveness between forums, which we thought might be fun. Also, the previous OIC saw a large number of 2+2 newbies sign up, and we felt that if people from other forums were going to sign up anyway, then it would be better if we all knew where they really came from.

[ QUOTE ]

Will the leaderboad be 2+2 forum specific or for the entire site?


[/ QUOTE ]
Forum specific

[ QUOTE ]

With incorporating UPF and RGB, will there be extra checks for possible cheating? I've never been to UPF but RGB is a wasteland and I'd have trouble trusting anyone that posts their regularly that isn't a big name or a golden oldie. I guess the same could be true here but its seems the comraderie here seems to keep people in line a bit.


[/ QUOTE ]
We agree with you that the community element of this board helps to keep potential cheating substantially in check, and we also agree that much of RGP is horribly polluted.

Nonetheless, as noted above, plenty of 2+2 newbies signed up for the last OIC, and it is likely that this will happen again, so the zoo camaraderie as protection against cheating had somewhat limited application last time anyway.

Our view on this issue is that we simply need to be somewhat more vigilant. We are able to do basic vetting of prize winners and leaderboard leaders without too much hassle, and can make more in-depth evaluation if needs be (although this is time-consuming and not something we would like to have to do, which in part explains our preference for maintaining this as an honor-bound event)

[ QUOTE ]

I personally think TGC has been tremendously generous with setting this up twice, the final prizes, daily prizes, etc. No need to make exceptions for RAF and 2nd free $50, etc etc. I understand people have unique circumstances, but a line needs to be drawn. kudos.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks – we very much appreciate it when the respected members of the board show an understanding of the issues that we face and which sometimes require difficult decisions on our part.

[ QUOTE ]

First, please, for the love of god, allah, buddha, whoever, add a "remember my password" box to the leaderboard.


[/ QUOTE ]
Good suggestion. We’re ashamed that we didn’t think of it first.

[ QUOTE ]

Second, daily prizes and their statistics should be on each days leaderboard.


[/ QUOTE ]
The new leaderboard page shows all of this – let us know if you think we’ve missed anything tho.

[ QUOTE ]

I'd also be prepared for a number of emails/PMs asking to investigate daily prizes as I just see too many people either cheating, or thinking there is cheating on these. I could be wrong, but its something to think about. Besides, StoneAge probably made an extra 5-6 hundred in these prices alone.


[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. Hopefully we’ll be able to catch any cheating before it happens, but we welcome any messages or posts regarding any alleged foul play people think they might have spotted.

[ QUOTE ]

pw
I agree the 300 raked hands is still too generous. You have to draw a line somewhere and 300 raked hands is more than fair game.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for being on our side /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

PO
Just wanted to say thanks for the effort you guys are putting into another OIC. I like the idea of expanding it to other forums, I'm all about adding more fish to my diet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Pleasure (for the effort and the fish /images/graemlins/smile.gif).

[ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, and as someone who had 277 raked hands last time...I think 300 is more than fair. To be honest, the fact you're giving additional $50 to some people is over the top IMHO. So thanks even though I didn't make it.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks also for understanding. Altho you’ll see from your account that we comp’ed you in anyway since we didn’t think it was right that the dude whose post originally got this thing going should be left out. Of course, if we’d known you would’ve played anyway we might not have been so generous /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]

nicperman
Why not change the raked 300 hands under the OIC timespan to an "unlimited" timespan? Then the people that busted out before the 300 hands still have an chance by completing there hands (eg buy in wih little cash and make the raked hands).


[/ QUOTE ]
We wouldn’t need to make the timespan unlimited to achieve this – the 300 raked hands requirement applies whether you busted out or not, and whether you used our funds or yours.

[ QUOTE ]

Then it would be a little more in the spirit with the OIC beacuse it was all about learning and make progress with you game whitout having to risk you own bankroll...


[/ QUOTE ]
Erm … nice try /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Actually, it's all about learning and making progress with your game with limited risk to your own bankroll.

[ QUOTE ]

CZ
there should be a clause about game availability though as often there is no 5-10 or 10-20 going. you should be allowed to step down one level if no game is going at your level.


[/ QUOTE ]
That’s possibly not unfair in principle, but we’d ask for a ruling against this on the grounds that it makes monitoring of “rules avoidance” (euphemism for cheating /images/graemlins/smile.gif) very much harder. For example, if there’s nothing going on at a particular limit, that’s not to say that someone wouldn’t join you for a game if you did sit down at an empty table and that the table wouldn’t fill up in a reasonable space of time. Given this, and that checking whether or not someone really made a try at starting a game up is a VERY onerous task, making sure that the basic rules are adhered to becomes almost impossible from our perspective. We anyway see a high possibility of an amendment like this being abused, with obvious messy consequences if we were to withhold prizes.

We do understand the concerns about lack of action at some limits, but hopefully you’ll all agree that this is becoming ever less of an issue as our site and the overall network grows, so soon this should hopefully be an academic issue anyway.

[ QUOTE ]

MH
I would prefer it if PO's Rule, with PO's permission, was amended slightly to:

A player may drop down to a previous level at any point provided that his bankroll is below the entry level for his current limit, and above the entry level for the nearest lower level.


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PO
I think Mike's rewording of the rule is essentially perfect.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys (and Hav too) for resolving this. We'll take the above as final then.


[ QUOTE ]

HavanaBanana
was browsing RECpoker:
[ QUOTE ]

this is copied from the rules that gaming club posted on 2+2.
…
there is still time to register. www.interne(cutoff)topenchallenge.com


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know if it is, but it looks like an affilliate redirect to TGC/OIC signup page?
If it is, thats the kind of undercover affilliate business I despice.


[/ QUOTE ]
It is, and it upset us greatly too. That affiliate was told on Monday (after we saw the RGP post on the weekend) that any accounts that sign up via that link (or any other such links that he posts on a public forum) will not be credited to him. Frankly put, we don’t need to pay someone to post a URL on an open forum like RGP (we pay ourselves to do that /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

He also made some misstatements about the workings of the OIC, which we have corrected (although we haven’t been back in a couple of days, so we need to see if anything else has been added since).

[ QUOTE ]

gabbyyyy
I mean if we all played over 300 hands why would be need to get the bonus for decemeber also? Obviously if someone busted out they would have not played that many hands.


[/ QUOTE ]
Ummmm … actually there were several people who raked in excess of 300 hands and who still busted out.

[ QUOTE ]

I know in my case I have played around 270 hands busted out and am ineligable. That just seems awful, and takes away from the spirit of the OIC.


[/ QUOTE ]
Since when did the spirit of the OIC have anything to do with free money?

[ QUOTE ]

You cannot treat everyone, as if they are going to get the bonus and cashout right away. Does not seem very fair to me. I will always praise things that I feel are fair. I must however, point out instances of policy that are manipulated in a unfair way.


[/ QUOTE ]
We fail to see how our offer of a $50 bonus subject to a minimum raked hand requirement amounts to treating everyone “as if they are going to get the bonus and cashout right away”. What it actually amounts to is an ex gratia reward to people who played a not particularly onerous minimum amount, and it says nothing about our expectations of future behaviour (if it did then there would be a restriction on cashing it out, which there isn’t).

We admit that better players are more likely to get the benefit of this, but that’s unfortunately not our fault, and we anyway had to draw a line somewhere. We’re sorry that you wound up on the wrong side of it, but that doesn’t make it unfair per se.

[ QUOTE ]

For all we know management of the gaming club had a look at, the average number of hands one played who got the bonus in novmember, After those statistics they saw that the average OIC participant had played 250 hands. So what they did was made the requirement above average (300), so they would virutally not have to give the bonus away twice to one person. Just my thoughts here.


[/ QUOTE ]
We’ve already stated what we did to determine this requirement – see our original post. Anyway, what would be the point of doing as you suggest? Why would we announce we’re giving money to people who qualify and then set the criteria so high that nobody gets it?

We won’t be shy to admit that positive PR is part of what we’re after here, and that only comes when a reasonable number of people actually get the money – it doesn’t come when we say we’re going to do something but then find a way not to do it.

[ QUOTE ]

Gomez22
And stop bashing TGC - they've done more for 2+2 than any other site, haven't they? ... Personally, I think TGC has almost bent over backwards to kiss our asses, and, even though I don't like putting it that way, I am VERY grateful for everything they have done.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks ‘Mez /images/graemlins/smile.gif … your choice of words leaves a funny taste in our mouths /images/graemlins/smile.gif but we appreciate the sentiment nonetheless

[ QUOTE ]

Jackal22
I did not participate the first time around, and I just signed up with TGC, and signed up on the OIC page. When will I find out if I am one of the first 500? I have not received an email or anything about OIC, although I have gotten emails from TGC about my new account there


[/ QUOTE ]
We’ve stated that we will need up to 1 working day (so that excludes weekends – we’ve been working late nights the past few days and need some R&amp;R /images/graemlins/smile.gif) to process registrations in order to filter out duplicates and errors. So expect to hear from us the next working day. And don’t worry, we’re still some way off hitting 500 registrations.

[ QUOTE ]

gabbyyyy
To me, the Decemeber OIC is meaningless if I cannot participate in it … It is just that I feel in this case the requirements are a bit too steep, and do not go with the true spirit of what the OIC is about.


[/ QUOTE ]
Plenty of other people have commented on gabbyyyy’s posts, pretty much all in support of us, so thanks to everyone who has done so. We won’t rehash the points made, other than to say that nothing stops you from participating if you’re prepared to use your own money, and we apologise if this was in any way unclear in our original post. We’ll also reiterate that the true spirit of the OIC is about improving your game, which has little or nothing to do with whether you use your funds or ours to do so.

[ QUOTE ]

BigBluffer
Someone posted earlier that they received an error message about an invalid account number when registering for the OIC. I just had the same problem. I know my account # starts with tgc.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, we goofed. This has been fixed now.

[ QUOTE ]

Now I'm wondering if my registration is actually valid, and when I go to check the leaderboard during the contest, what account number should I use?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it is – we spotted your “hack” and corrected it for you. The $50 should already be in your account.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, are we supposed to receive a confirmation email when we register for the OIC?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, once we’ve processed registrations for the day we send out emails saying whether or not you’ve qualified (and if not then why not).

[ QUOTE ]

mrpurple
I'm in. Just downloaded the software and am going to give it a try as a sideline to my regular online play.
…
actually I'm out. I poked around a little and don't like the software. I'll stick to stars and party.


[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry to hear you feel that way, although we respect your opinion. Read some of our posts and you’ll see we’ve taken a lot of comments like this on the chin. You’ll also see that we’ve already used some of the feedback that has arisen to improve our product, and we can assure you that the other issues raised are being diligently worked on. If you ever change your mind, we’d appreciate your thoughts on how we can improve the software.

[ QUOTE ]

Stagemusic
The November OIC was a great experience for me. It really DID help my game. Here is a quick overview of the results.

1. I started playing online in April
2. I had never cashed out at a site in my life
3. I had deposited over $1000 in various sites

In November at the TGC alone and due to the OIC
1. I played over 850 raked hands
2. I cashed out over $400 into my personal bank account
3. I also placed $100 each into two other sites
4. I still have over $150 dollars left on the site.
….
Mike, Jason, TGC...Thanks. You have improved my game by leaps and bounds due to your dedication to selflessly helping other players grow.


[/ QUOTE ]
Wow … Stage, this is really great /images/graemlins/smile.gif
We’ll never deny that our reasons for offering this event are substantially commercial (our finance director might prefer to say “un-commercial”, but that’s only because quality feedback and loyalty aren’t line items on an income statement /images/graemlins/smile.gif), but knowing that the OIC has been of benefit to even just one player gives us a real nice warm and fuzzy feeling … thanks, you’ve really made our day /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Ulysses
It's really shocking to see a post here saying "These guys are unfair. They gave me $50 (or $100 or $150 or whatever) for free, but now they won't give me another $50 for free."


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

goodguy_1
I agree Stage .This give me something for free attitude is ridiculous.TGC guy and TGC have put up with alot to enable OIC-nov and again OIC-dec. … TGC spends alot of time and effort on this..and some guys are carping about not getting enough freebies.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks both of you for the support.

[ QUOTE ]

Hirez
How exactly do you find out how many raked hands you played? i've looked all over and can't find it.


[/ QUOTE ]
For the current event you’ll find it on the leaderboard when you log in. For the previous event the data is no longer live, but if you register we’ll mail you once we’ve processed your registration and let you know whether or not you met the 300.

Apologies again for taking so long to reply. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread, and GL to everyone taking part.

[pokerbreathdan]

at what point is someone able to rebuy back up to the $50? is it when they drop below the 25 bb's or when they are all the way broke?

[Mike Haven]

at what point is someone able to rebuy back up to the $50?

I've been wondering how long it would be before someone asked that!

The way I see it is that you start with $50. You can start at any time. It is the first part of the Challenge that you build from $50 to $100. I don't see any great reason in penalising someone who buys in with $50, who plays for an hour or two and ends up with $25, by forcing him to start the next day with $25. (To take it to silly extremes, he could bet wildly and purposefully lose his $35 in a few minutes and start again, with no objections by anybody.)

Personally, I would be totally happy with someone starting their next session with $50 if that's what they wanted to do, rather than waste a few dollars by forced or induced tilt of some description.

[jsmith5]

Is someone compiling these posts to make a FAQ? That would be great for the website for all the people not on this forum (I'm new myself).

[mrpurple]

Changed my mind agagain. I just started. I guess your software just doesn't have the same look and feel as most. But, I'm up for the challenge. After a cuple actual hands I'm getting used to the software. What seemed like issues are really minor in retrospect.


Thanks for you generosity.

[pokerbreathdan]

i am about to switch up to 1/2 and don't see my bankroll hitting 100 even. do i start the next level and keep the overage from the final pot in my non oic funds or do i keep ot in the ioc funds?

[josie_wales]

Dan,
(and someone correct me if I am mistaken) but this was asked in the last OIC and as I remember it, once you hit $100 at the .50/1.00 table, you are allowed to sit at that table and play until the blinds hit you.

AND, you may take all that you win to the next level. For example, if you win a pot that puts you up to $104.50, then play until the blinds hit you and the hand before you win another pot puttring you to $109.00, you will now move to 1/2 with an OIC bankroll of $109.

Hope this helps (and is correct:)

Josie Wales

[pokerbreathdan]

thankyou

[Stagemusic]

Right on the button Josie as I understand it. Nice shot. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mike Haven]

A FAQ section sounds like the perfect idea.

I've pm-ed PO on this point to see how he wants to play it, when he has some time to spare, (spare time being a very sparse commodity for PO, I believe, owing to him recently taking up a new job).

Thank you. Keep 'em coming.

[Gamblor]

[bigjay]

Anyone else getting an erroneous count on their OIC balance? Mine's coming up as 81 something when it should be 137 something. I didn't meet the raked hand requirement so I'm using my own money (well, really the stake from the last one) and I only have 4.25 extra. I'm just wondering how to correct this...

[Redhotman]

cool

[Gaming Club]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else getting an erroneous count on their OIC balance? Mine's coming up as 81 something when it should be 137 something. I didn't meet the raked hand requirement so I'm using my own money (well, really the stake from the last one) and I only have 4.25 extra. I'm just wondering how to correct this...

[/ QUOTE ]

Presumably you're referring to the info that you see when you log on to the leaderboard? If so, simply make a new declaration of your non-OIC funds balance; when you log on again tomorrow the correct balance will be shown (we don't change it in real time because the results shown are a snapshot as at midnight just passed).

[Jackal22]

[ QUOTE ]
either way we?ll find a way to get another set of 500 embossed clay chips into the prize structure


[/ QUOTE ]

Have you figured this out yet?

[Dalamar]

Well, I really must interject. I'm a new poster to this forum, but have been lurking and reading for some time.

As I understand it, the OIC was set up to be educational - to IMPROVE YOUR PLAY. I don't recall anywhere it being stated that this was implemented to get people $50 free.

Now, if you didn't make the hand requirement because you busted out, my apologies. But if that's the case, odds are you learned something worthwhile about your shortcomings in the game. If you didn't make the hand requirement because you were out of time, you have to ask yourself how dedicated you were to achieving in the challenge in the first place. If you had money left, and didn't make the hand requirement, odds are you weren't dedicated enough, or you'd have made the hands.

So, in essence - you either tilted and busted out early and learned something, or you lacked the dedication to really improve your game. Either way, why should these good people be chastised because they don't want to give you another $50? If it was #1, throw $50 in a deposit and give it another go. If you're a quality player that can improve - you'll probably make it back tenfold. If it was #2, you've probably got more than enough to cover the challenge left anyways.

Either way, there's no point to crying that you aren't getting $50 *more* free dollars, when most sites wouldn't be generous to give you that in the first place. I'll adapt on an old quote here for you:

"Never kick a gift horse in the mouth"

Jay