Is it ever correct to fold the BB on Party 3/6?

[Dov]

I was playing party 3/6 last night and doing fine until this hand came up. It caused me to tilt and quit the game 3 hands later after doubting my play.

I was in the BB with J2o. A raise, 4 callers and 1 bet back to me. I fold. (Should I play any 2 cards here?)

5 to the Flop
Flop comes QJJ. Betting is capped on the flop. (I probably would have folded this flop too after the action. Too tight?)

5 to the Turn
Turn comes J. Bet, Raise, Fold, Fold, Fold, Call. (I was trying to get my cards back from the muck.)

2 to the River
River comes K. Board is now QJJJK. Bet, Raise, Raise, Raise, Call. (Showdown is AQ vs K5).

I know that my J2o is garbage, and that this particular board hit it as hard as possible, but it got me to thinking - should you ever fold the BB for 1 bet with more than 2 callers? Should you ever fold a set of jacks with a weak-very weak kicker on a Party 3/6 game? Am I playing too weak-tight?

I'm not completely disappointed in my play, just wondering because these decisions come up frequently.

Any insight would be great. Thanks in advance.

Dov /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[lil']

should you ever fold the BB for 1 bet with more than 2 callers?
I think you already know the answer to your question.

You can increase your calling standards as the pot grows larger, but what kind of flop are you wanting to see with J-2o??? 2-2-2?

Even flopping trip jacks will be an adventure, as you have no kicker at all.

[Dov]

Thanks, Lil. You're right. Just needed to hear it from someone else. Again.

Dov /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Bob T.]

Yes. Frequently. Your standards for calling in the BB should be a little tighter than your standards for completing the SB in a game with 1-2 blind ratio.

[icepoker]

You do realise that if you tilt in a situation like this you have some work to do? Of course your fold is right, consider the fact that 99.8% of all possible flops leave you dry and therefore it's a good fold.

[Brian]

Hi Dov,

Stop being results oriented. Frequently the best play in poker does not always work out the best. That's why people call raises from the BB with J2. They are the fish that the rest of us love, because they remember the one time the Flop was 2 Jacks when they folded, and they're still beating themselves up over it.

-Brian

[Dov]

I know I have A LOT of work to do regarding tilt. I have generally had to limit my sessions to under 2 hours because of it.

I guess I just needed a little reinforcement on one of my own hands. This is the first one I've posted so far, and I thought I played it correctly, but when the self doubt came in, I thought I would stop the session and consult the experts.

Thanks for all of your help.

Dov /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Dov]

Why should the BB call be tighter than the SB? In both cases you are essentially completing half a bet.

If you say that a raise probably indicates a good hand, you could probably argue that an EP limper also has a better than random hand and shouldn't complete the SB either. I don't think that's true, though.

Maybe I just don't know how to play the blinds properly and have just found a huge leak in my game.

Time for more investigation. Thanks for your help.

Dov /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Dov]

It's funny that you say that, b/c that's exactly what I said to myself when the case J turned. I couldn't get out of that line of thinking, though, which is why I ended the session 3 hands later.

Thanks for your help, good read. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dov /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Brian]

Hi Dov,

[ QUOTE ]
Why should the BB call be tighter than the SB? In both cases you are essentially completing half a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason you should play tighter to a raise in the BB is that your likelihood of being dominated increases dramatically. Hands like QJo, JTo, which are fine hands to complete with in the SB, are a lot worse when calling a raise with in the BB. Even though you are apparently getting the same odds for both, the aforementioned hands lose a lot of value when you are playing them mainly for their straight possibilities, instead of their pair and straight possibilities.

-Brian

[Mike Gallo]

I was in the BB with J2o. A raise, 4 callers and 1 bet back to me. I fold. (Should I play any 2 cards here?)


I think that sounds pretty routine. I do not agree with playing any two here.

You have a bigger problem here than you realize if you become this results oriented. You lost the battle but will the war in the good fight.

[Ed Miller]

Another reason you play tighter is that you are only getting half the implied odds when you call the raise from the BB that you are when you complete the SB (that is, your price is twice as high compared to the anticipated postflop action). Another consideration that enters when someone raises is your position with respect to the raiser. If you are out of position with respect to the raiser, that is bad for drawing-type hands.

[Dov]

Thank you guys!

That just helped me tremendously! I think you just helped me fix a huge leak in my game.

I really appreciate everyone's help.

Godd Luck

Dov /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Lori]

consider the fact that 99.8% of all possible flops leave you dry

You will flop two pair approximately 5% of the time.

(I'm not disputing the advice, just the figures)

Lori

[Bob T.]

Why should the BB call be tighter than the SB? In both cases you are essentially completing half a bet.


Because raising hands, are better than limping hands, you need more hand to compete with them. And because your implied odds have been cut in half, because you are putting in twice as much money preflop.