Josh W
11-27-2003, 05:52 AM
The Hustler is an odd place to play poker.
I've been playing mostly there for months now. The games used to be great, and now they are just very good. It's unique in LA, though, because there is a small pool of players who play there. It's roughly the same people everyday.
The 15-30 and larger games can't be too profitable for the house, because there are always 3 props in the games. A few of the props are super solid (2 or 3), a few are super ABC and a few are good enough to beat good games, and slowly go broke in bad games.
I played 15-30 and 25-50 almost exclusively for the past 6 months there. I prefered the 25-50 game, because the games were equally as good as the 15-30 games.
I was quickly able to recognize the good players in the game. And many of the best players (5 or 6 of them/us) wanted to start playing bigger...40-80 and/or 50-100.
I played in these games a number of times. They may sound like bad games, but they only started when JJ or T or some other rich fish wanted to play. We'd just sit and feast on him. I made the mistake a couple of times to play shorthanded with great players, and just spun my wheels. I told myself not to do that anymore.
A few weeks ago, I posted a 60-120 hand that took place when JJ wanted to play. The bigger games were ALWAYS good. Great, even.
Then, about two weeks ago, D rolled into town. He's on his way to vegas, and is really trying to get a local hustler player to put him in the 200-400 at the bellagio (I should say that this player may even be the same player as the 'newbie' in snakeheads 200-400 post...that night, D went to commerce).
Well, D wanted to play bigger...80-160 and the like. The games were shorthanded, centered around D and L. They are both good shorthanded players, but their play suffers dramatcially in full games. So, I started playing 80-160 when they were in the game, as well as 4 or 5 others.
My problem was twofold....two weeks ago, I had never played 80-160 on my own money...I had been staked in that game before. I was nervous before I sat down, but when I sat down, the money didn't matter anymore. It was just poker.
Well, I ran a little bad, and when the games got short (my second problem), I didn't get up. I LOVE shorthanded games up to 40-80, because most players at those limits aren't used to shorthanded play. However, at 80-160, the players, in my experience, are noticeably better at shorthanded play.
So, I didn't leave, and I dropped a few dimes one more than one occassion. That whole 'the money didn't matter' bit....well, it should have.
My bankroll, after a few bad sessions in the 80-160 and a horrid session (-4800 in 3 hours at 40-80 at commerce) at 40-80, and I was back at the "only play up to 25-50" spot of my bankroll. No problem those games were great. At least, I didn't think it was a problem.
See, I played those games, and won a few thousand back in a couple days. But, on MOnday of this week, they broke the 25-50 to make a 50-100 game. Like I said, the Hustler is a unique place to play cards...they break one game to start another.
Two of the fish in the 80-160 game (K and S) were expected to be coming in (one of the props has their phone numbers...an awesome aspect of a small cardroom). Since they were gonna be playing 50-100, I decided to jump in. While waiting for these fish, another fish "K2" sat down with nearly 3K. Great.
until I lose my J9d on Kc Td 7d; 6c; 8c board to 2c3c...three bets on the flop...oh yeah...good games...K2 won 4400 in 20 minutes, and left.
Then, K and S come in, and want to play bigger...so they start a 100-200 game.
The 50 gets short, so I leave, up for the day, feeling a recovery...
I know not to play in that 100-200 game...so, today, after work, I head to Hawaiian Gardens. I play 15-30 and 20-40 while waiting for a few buddies to show up...I win a dime, then go play 4-8 with my buddies...there, I won a few hundred more, and had an awesome time. But, it was time to go to work, around 7:00, so I depart, and head to the hustler. I'll just play some 25-50. I get there, and get a seat in the 25.
The 100-200 is going, but there is no 50-100 or 40-80 or anything. The 100-200 is 5 handed, with 4 great players (one player being great only shorthanded, and very weak in a full game), and one bad player. I look at the game, knowing its not for me.
But I hear that S and K are coming in. These guys are soft, like butter. They love the check/call. They aren't weak like maniacs. I turn my attention back to the 25-50 game, where I'm up a little. I tell a prop in the 25 game (JW) that the big game looks juicy. I say, half in jest, that I should play.
JW responds with "yeah you should...have you ever played that big?" I tell him "no". he says "well, it's time you graduate. You're a great player, have great discipline, never get flustered, and would be the best player in that game...heck, I'd even wanna take a piece of you". I'm flattered, but still earthbound.
Then, S and K show up. They both buy in for two racks. I play 25-50, watching the game. Finally, the urge is too great, and I ask JW "were you serious". He waves me over, and takes a piece of me. The game is now 7 handed, so the good shorthanded player is now a fish. Really. There are 4 bad players in the game, and 2 that I respect. Two of the weak players are a little more aggressive than I'd like, but the two biggest fish (and loosest players) are passive. Since they aren't too wild, I decide the game isn't too big.
Well, I hop in the game, play tightish, and eventually book a nice little win. I give JW his cut, and sit back, reflective.
Screw reflective...I'm proud. I mean, I shouldn't be. The best players in that game were 25-50 players, like me. The rest were fish. It was basically a hopped up 25-50 game.
But I can't help myself. I call my best poker bud, T. T lives in Vegas, and has been out there for a couple years now. He moved out there to be a pro, and has had great success. He's constantly trying to get me to move out there and join him...he doesn't realize how futile his efforts are, tho /images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Well, I tell T my story...and like a concerned and/or jealous friend, he says he's worried about the limit. He asked me "where will you stop? When you lose everything?".
I've thought about what he said a lot. And I think it goes back to something L, a prop at Hustler once told me.
L won a ton of money in horses one year (pick 6, I think). He played cards, at like a 20-40 level, then jumped up to the 300-600 level overnight. He lost a ton of money very quickly, but he said he learned so much more about the game then he ever would at mid-limits. Even though he lost money, the lessons he learned there have repaid his debts many many times over. L is truly a great mid limit poker player...the best I've ever heard of.
And, getting back to T, I think that the best advice I've never seen, never heard, and never read is advice I gave somebody once.
If you want to be a truly amazing poker player, I mean, world class by any definition, then do NOT become a pro too early.
Get yourself in a position where you can go bust, and not need to worry about your family, food, home, bills, etc. T is a phenomenal player, and a great tourny player. However, he can't buy his way into tournies, because 1K swings are unwanted. I've bought myself into 3K tournies. I've had more success in tournies than T, just because I've entered more. We both have made a lot of money in tournies.
I will play (but usually don't) much bigger than T, even though I'm not 'much better' (if better at all).
Because I can play bigger, and all of my poker money can go to my bankroll and not to bills, I can raise in limits faster.
Some day, Ben Affleck is gonna stroll back into the Hustler. James Woods is gonna want to play big. These other rich businessmen will wanna gamble it up. It wouldn't surprise me to see a 200-400 game there before next years WSOP.
And knowing that I can be at that table is a damn fine feeling. (If snakehead's in the game, though, I'll probably take an 'out' button).
I'm sincerely sorry that this is a very boastful post. But, damn, I love this game.
Josh
I've been playing mostly there for months now. The games used to be great, and now they are just very good. It's unique in LA, though, because there is a small pool of players who play there. It's roughly the same people everyday.
The 15-30 and larger games can't be too profitable for the house, because there are always 3 props in the games. A few of the props are super solid (2 or 3), a few are super ABC and a few are good enough to beat good games, and slowly go broke in bad games.
I played 15-30 and 25-50 almost exclusively for the past 6 months there. I prefered the 25-50 game, because the games were equally as good as the 15-30 games.
I was quickly able to recognize the good players in the game. And many of the best players (5 or 6 of them/us) wanted to start playing bigger...40-80 and/or 50-100.
I played in these games a number of times. They may sound like bad games, but they only started when JJ or T or some other rich fish wanted to play. We'd just sit and feast on him. I made the mistake a couple of times to play shorthanded with great players, and just spun my wheels. I told myself not to do that anymore.
A few weeks ago, I posted a 60-120 hand that took place when JJ wanted to play. The bigger games were ALWAYS good. Great, even.
Then, about two weeks ago, D rolled into town. He's on his way to vegas, and is really trying to get a local hustler player to put him in the 200-400 at the bellagio (I should say that this player may even be the same player as the 'newbie' in snakeheads 200-400 post...that night, D went to commerce).
Well, D wanted to play bigger...80-160 and the like. The games were shorthanded, centered around D and L. They are both good shorthanded players, but their play suffers dramatcially in full games. So, I started playing 80-160 when they were in the game, as well as 4 or 5 others.
My problem was twofold....two weeks ago, I had never played 80-160 on my own money...I had been staked in that game before. I was nervous before I sat down, but when I sat down, the money didn't matter anymore. It was just poker.
Well, I ran a little bad, and when the games got short (my second problem), I didn't get up. I LOVE shorthanded games up to 40-80, because most players at those limits aren't used to shorthanded play. However, at 80-160, the players, in my experience, are noticeably better at shorthanded play.
So, I didn't leave, and I dropped a few dimes one more than one occassion. That whole 'the money didn't matter' bit....well, it should have.
My bankroll, after a few bad sessions in the 80-160 and a horrid session (-4800 in 3 hours at 40-80 at commerce) at 40-80, and I was back at the "only play up to 25-50" spot of my bankroll. No problem those games were great. At least, I didn't think it was a problem.
See, I played those games, and won a few thousand back in a couple days. But, on MOnday of this week, they broke the 25-50 to make a 50-100 game. Like I said, the Hustler is a unique place to play cards...they break one game to start another.
Two of the fish in the 80-160 game (K and S) were expected to be coming in (one of the props has their phone numbers...an awesome aspect of a small cardroom). Since they were gonna be playing 50-100, I decided to jump in. While waiting for these fish, another fish "K2" sat down with nearly 3K. Great.
until I lose my J9d on Kc Td 7d; 6c; 8c board to 2c3c...three bets on the flop...oh yeah...good games...K2 won 4400 in 20 minutes, and left.
Then, K and S come in, and want to play bigger...so they start a 100-200 game.
The 50 gets short, so I leave, up for the day, feeling a recovery...
I know not to play in that 100-200 game...so, today, after work, I head to Hawaiian Gardens. I play 15-30 and 20-40 while waiting for a few buddies to show up...I win a dime, then go play 4-8 with my buddies...there, I won a few hundred more, and had an awesome time. But, it was time to go to work, around 7:00, so I depart, and head to the hustler. I'll just play some 25-50. I get there, and get a seat in the 25.
The 100-200 is going, but there is no 50-100 or 40-80 or anything. The 100-200 is 5 handed, with 4 great players (one player being great only shorthanded, and very weak in a full game), and one bad player. I look at the game, knowing its not for me.
But I hear that S and K are coming in. These guys are soft, like butter. They love the check/call. They aren't weak like maniacs. I turn my attention back to the 25-50 game, where I'm up a little. I tell a prop in the 25 game (JW) that the big game looks juicy. I say, half in jest, that I should play.
JW responds with "yeah you should...have you ever played that big?" I tell him "no". he says "well, it's time you graduate. You're a great player, have great discipline, never get flustered, and would be the best player in that game...heck, I'd even wanna take a piece of you". I'm flattered, but still earthbound.
Then, S and K show up. They both buy in for two racks. I play 25-50, watching the game. Finally, the urge is too great, and I ask JW "were you serious". He waves me over, and takes a piece of me. The game is now 7 handed, so the good shorthanded player is now a fish. Really. There are 4 bad players in the game, and 2 that I respect. Two of the weak players are a little more aggressive than I'd like, but the two biggest fish (and loosest players) are passive. Since they aren't too wild, I decide the game isn't too big.
Well, I hop in the game, play tightish, and eventually book a nice little win. I give JW his cut, and sit back, reflective.
Screw reflective...I'm proud. I mean, I shouldn't be. The best players in that game were 25-50 players, like me. The rest were fish. It was basically a hopped up 25-50 game.
But I can't help myself. I call my best poker bud, T. T lives in Vegas, and has been out there for a couple years now. He moved out there to be a pro, and has had great success. He's constantly trying to get me to move out there and join him...he doesn't realize how futile his efforts are, tho /images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Well, I tell T my story...and like a concerned and/or jealous friend, he says he's worried about the limit. He asked me "where will you stop? When you lose everything?".
I've thought about what he said a lot. And I think it goes back to something L, a prop at Hustler once told me.
L won a ton of money in horses one year (pick 6, I think). He played cards, at like a 20-40 level, then jumped up to the 300-600 level overnight. He lost a ton of money very quickly, but he said he learned so much more about the game then he ever would at mid-limits. Even though he lost money, the lessons he learned there have repaid his debts many many times over. L is truly a great mid limit poker player...the best I've ever heard of.
And, getting back to T, I think that the best advice I've never seen, never heard, and never read is advice I gave somebody once.
If you want to be a truly amazing poker player, I mean, world class by any definition, then do NOT become a pro too early.
Get yourself in a position where you can go bust, and not need to worry about your family, food, home, bills, etc. T is a phenomenal player, and a great tourny player. However, he can't buy his way into tournies, because 1K swings are unwanted. I've bought myself into 3K tournies. I've had more success in tournies than T, just because I've entered more. We both have made a lot of money in tournies.
I will play (but usually don't) much bigger than T, even though I'm not 'much better' (if better at all).
Because I can play bigger, and all of my poker money can go to my bankroll and not to bills, I can raise in limits faster.
Some day, Ben Affleck is gonna stroll back into the Hustler. James Woods is gonna want to play big. These other rich businessmen will wanna gamble it up. It wouldn't surprise me to see a 200-400 game there before next years WSOP.
And knowing that I can be at that table is a damn fine feeling. (If snakehead's in the game, though, I'll probably take an 'out' button).
I'm sincerely sorry that this is a very boastful post. But, damn, I love this game.
Josh