Flopping top two pair

[Saborion]

1/2. Loose passive. 10-handed.

First of all, this is the terminology I use for position: SB, BB, EP1, EP2, EP3, MP1, MP2, MP3, CO, button. Not sure that`s the standard since I`ve seen posts where people say UTG, then followed by EP1 and so on. So, someone please correct me.

On to the hand now.
I`m dealt J /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the BB.
EP1 limp, EP2 limp, EP3 limp, MP2 limp, CO (poster) check, button limp, I check.
7 to the flop.

[A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif] 4 BB.
Being pretty sure that someone will bet this flop, hoping that the bet would come from late position, I check with the intention of check-raising.
I check, EP1 bet, EP2 call, EP3 call, buton call, I raise, everyone call.
5 to the turn.

7 /images/graemlins/club.gif [A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif] 8.5 BB.
I bet, EP1 call, EP2 call, button call.
4 to the river.

Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif [7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif] 12.5 BB.
I bet, button call.

My hand is good. Now what I wonder is, since the bet on the flop came from EP1 (unfortunately), and since it`s unlikely anyone will fold to a check-raise from me there, should I have waited with it until the turn to try to maximize my profit? I mean, no one is going to fold to my check-raise on the flop anyway. If someone picks up a straight or flush draw on the turn, they wouldn`t fold to me betting out after a flop check-raise. With a turn check-raise I would`ve gained at least 2 more BBs I think.

[Guido]

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First of all, this is the terminology I use for position: SB, BB, EP1, EP2, EP3, MP1, MP2, MP3, CO, button. Not sure that`s the standard since I`ve seen posts where people say UTG, then followed by EP1 and so on. So, someone please correct me.

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Both are right.

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Being pretty sure that someone will bet this flop, hoping that the bet would come from late position, I check with the intention of check-raising.

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Ok, but what about betting out and hoping for a raise so you can 3-bet?

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I have waited with it until the turn to try to maximize my profit?

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Like I said in the other post, these hands aren't that strong. I don't like to wait until the turn. C/R the flop is fine. People are more likely to call on the flop then on the turn also. And what if the turn was a K or Q? Would you still feel comfortable about a C/R?

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If someone picks up a straight or flush draw on the turn, they wouldn`t fold to me betting out after a flop check-raise. With a turn check-raise I would`ve gained at least 2 more BBs I think.

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I think you played the turn and river perfect.

[Saborion]

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Being pretty sure that someone will bet this flop, hoping that the bet would come from late position, I check with the intention of check-raising.
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Ok, but what about betting out and hoping for a raise so you can 3-bet?

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The players at this site are very loose, and since I couldn`t spot any aggressive player at the table at that moment, I seriously doubt I would`ve been raised.

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I have waited with it until the turn to try to maximize my profit?[ QUOTE ]


Like I said in the other post, these hands aren't that strong. I don't like to wait until the turn. C/R the flop is fine. People are more likely to call on the flop then on the turn also. And what if the turn was a K or Q? Would you still feel comfortable about a C/R?

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Yes, but as I said, people would NOT fold to my check-raise on the flop, and if they caught a card they liked on the turn, they wouldn`t fold there either. Problem is, as you say, a card that could be scary for me might come on the turn. Or maybe the flop bettor wouldn`t bet out again. So I suppose it`s no need to be greedy Part of the reason I asked is because people are talking about 1 BB / hour, which is pretty slim margin. So if I could extract ~2 BB by doing a check-raise on the turn instead, that would be pretty nice. But, I can see why this most likely isn`t the best play.

[Guido]

About the flop, Ok good reason.

You get a good BB/hour rate by playing well. Not by playing fancy.

[Drunk Bob]

I'm not exactly sure why you want the bet too come from late position.I would want it too come from where it did.

With this flop any hand you are ahead of has at most four outs.Also you have 2 to 4 outs to redraw.

After EP1 bets I may have just called and checked raised the turn if I was sure EP1 would bet again.ONTOH raising the flop gives you a better idea what hands you are against.

[Saborion]

I wanted the bet to come from a late position so that I could make people have to call 2 cold for their draws. But you`re right. The only real draw I need to worry about is the straight draw.

[Drunk Bob]

Check raising too drive people out makes more sense if you just have one pair.

At Party $1/2 if they have something they probably aren't going anywhere anyway. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GuyOnTilt]

You get a good BB/hour rate by playing well. Not by playing fancy.

This is excellent advice.

You played the hand well, btw.

GoT