10/20 seemed like a simple hand

[slavic]

This hand got me a nice lecture last night.

UTG limps (he's looser than I am but I wouldn't call him loose), MP limps (very few cards she doesn't like especially suited), SB completes (again he likes to play a lot of cards and tends to draw as long as he has an overcard), I check my option with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Flop: Q 9 4 r

SB checks, I check, UTG bets, MP folds, SB calls, at this point I know UTG has a Q he's straightforward in his play and likely had KQ or QJ. The SB will call most flops regardless of his holding. I'm a little light but I call.

Turn: A - rainbow completes

SB checks, I check, UTG checks

River: rag

SB checks, I bet, UTG calls, SB folds

No doubt about it I didn't have odds to call the flop, however I thought I could easily make the 2 BB's up and then some post flop with the two players involved. In the overall realm of life this probably falls under doesn't matter, fold or play it's pretty close.

Is this one I should just pass on?

[Ginogino]

Slavic:

I can't argue with your flop call. If you hit your hand you could win some extra, plus knowing UTG enough to read his hand is worth something.

When the rainbow A comes on the turn, you have to have a pretty good feel for whether UTG will bet if checked to. A lot of players who play like UTG will not open bet the turn with an A on the table and two opponents. I think you must bet the turn. SB could have a straight draw (with the turn card there are two possible straights).

You can't give your opponents a free card. If you only get one player to call, you at least break even with the way you played the hand, and I think you'll get another big bet from UTG in many cases.
Gino

[stripsqueez]

it would be a simpler hand if you bet the flop - one reason for betting the flop is that if you improve on the turn the hand is much easier to play

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[slavic]

My thoughts were call UTG because I'm behind or checkraise Ms Anytwo because she will bet with position almost 100% of the time.

[Georgia Peach]

I agree, bet the turn. You've got to think AQ would bet or raise you and then you can fold or call.

[Diplomat]

I don't like the way you played your hand at all. I would have bet the flop, bet the turn, and if I did not do either of those things, maybe checkraised the river.

If you were sure he had a queen in his hand, your flop call was a mistake.

-Diplomat

[mosch]

I have trouble with your flop call and your turn check.

I have issue with the flop call because it seems to me that there's a chance of the UTG player having AQo, leaving you with 2 good outs and 3 okay outs. Add in the fact that you were real light to begin with, and I have trouble seeing it as a good place to call.

The turn check seems like you feared a check-raise or something. I have trouble seeing why you'd wait another street to pull the trigger. If you're beat here, you're probably going to get raised, so why not bet and see if you have a difficult decision afterwards?

disclaimer: I am not a good poker player.

[slavic]

Hi Mosch- You bring up two good points let me see if I can't clarify.

I have a good read on the UTG player. He would never pass up a raising opportunity with AQo UTG. He would win the blinds quite often with it and with the players most likely to call he would dominate them. So I crossed out AQo or any big ace early on.

My turn check was a failed check raise. I tried for a check raise here because I thought I could get the SB for 1 more BB. If I bet out UTG will call, but the SB is not a guaranteed call. The problem is that I expected Mr weak tight to bet on a scare card. It pretty well ruined the whole hand by me getting fancy.

[GuyOnTilt]

at this point I know UTG has a Q he's straightforward in his play and likely had KQ or QJ.

I call.

Those two statements don't go well together. If you're sure that UTG has a Q, then you should fold the flop. I would've bet out.

I don't understand why 2 replies has put UTG on AQ on the flop. Since he said that UTG plays very straight-forward, AQ would be one of the last hands I'd put him on. His ace outs are squeaky clean, there's just not enough of them to justify a flop call.

GoT

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I have issue with the flop call because it seems to me that there's a chance of the UTG player having AQo, leaving you with 2 good outs and 3 okay outs.

[/ QUOTE ]
u for real?
[ QUOTE ]
The turn check seems like you feared a check-raise or something.

[/ QUOTE ]
he's not. he wanted to check raise.

[mosch]

Hey slavic-

[ QUOTE ]
I have a good read on the UTG player. He would never pass up a raising opportunity with AQo UTG. He would win the blinds quite often with it and with the players most likely to call he would dominate them. So I crossed out AQo or any big ace early on.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, that makes sense then... about half the people in my local 10/20 flat-call with AQo in EP, which is why I still mentally had it on my list.

[ QUOTE ]
My turn check was a failed check raise. I tried for a check raise here because I thought I could get the SB for 1 more BB. If I bet out UTG will call, but the SB is not a guaranteed call. The problem is that I expected Mr weak tight to bet on a scare card. It pretty well ruined the whole hand by me getting fancy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm trying to decide if my response here is ill-founded in general, so here it goes. You only have one player to your left, and it's a player who hasn't shown considerable aggression during this hand. You put this player on KQ or QJ, neither of which were helped by the A. Therefore, while it is possible the player may take a stab at the pot, the player is more likely to check through to avoid a check-raise, and just try to finish the hand on the cheap.

Do you think my reasoning here is flawed? Do you think it was more likely that he'd bet than check, but you just got unlucky this time?