Another stupid preflop situation

[Vehn]

$30/$60 6 handed. I have an aggressive/tricky image and probably won't get away with much. The player to my left is mediocre but aggressive. He telegraphs his actions almost constantly. If I raise he will 3 bet with his best hands and coldcall with other hands he wants to play. The button is loose-bizarre but the other 3 players are tight to very tight. I am UTG and see my LHO reaching for chips. I have QJs. Call/raise/fold?

[Inthacup]

overlimp?

[Diplomat]

Find a better game. But if none other is available, limp.

-Diplomat

[David Steele]

When you say reaching for the chips, I am assuming he won't automatically 3-bet but will at least call. I would raise with this particular hand. You have Q and J coverage and buy some A and K scarecardage.

D.

[James282]

I'm folding, queen high isn't going to be fun to play if people realize I am tricky and are going to call me down if I don't hit. I would play QJs with position behind a limper here, but UTG with an aggresive whom we know likes his hand, I am going to send it to the muck. You might be able to raise the tighties out, or get them to call and then fold the flop, but if we know he is coming, there is no reason to try and make a play on him. I guess I just hate QJ in early position in general, suited or not.
-James

[Georgia Peach]

So, I'm assuming that a bet or limp UTG with QJs is a bluff move or to throw your opponents off in the event of a showdown, and not a good move otherwise.

Limping or raising UTG with QJs with tight players is questionable, at least it would seem to be (See HPAP pp. 18-22).

If the loose cannon is signalling a call or raise, why stay in this hand since position sucks, other than for bluff or to act differently for a hand?

[ZeeJustin]

Fold

[David Steele]

Limping or raising UTG with QJs with tight players is questionable, at least it would seem to be (See HPAP pp. 18-22).

QJs is listed as a group 3 hand, HFAP suggests dropping some group 4 hands.

Furthermore this game is 6 handed so it is more like middle postiton.

Furthermore it is not particularly tight with one "loose-bizarre" player and another that will cold-call an UTG raises with too many hands.

I would not consider raising with QJs a bluff, it is just that since you are going to play it, you may as well raise and gain some extra scaryness.

D.

[Vehn]

It was a terrific game. I don't wanna sound like a prick, but frankly the real money at the mid limits is made by figuring out how to beat people who don't play a lot of hands. All 3 of the tight players were A) too tight, B) too straight forward, C) not aggressive enough, D) gave their opponents too much credit, of which I thoughtfully converted into chips until my image degenerated to where it was at that time. I'm sure we would all like to constantly surrounded by clowns but that doesn't happen a lot at $30/$60. I left shortly anyways.

Anyways my thoughts here was getting 3 bet would make me throw up, but I have too much hand here not to play. I limped in, he raised behind me, everyone else folded, and I managed to choke back the vomit long enought to miss my straight draw.

[mike l.]

"I have an aggressive/tricky image and probably won't get away with much."

what a perfect time to start throwing out hands even as good as QJs and waiting for only the strongest of cards and just strangling them with a really tight gear shift. conquer their reads by shifting gears on them, theyll hate you for it and your bank account will love you.

[Vehn]

Good point but I'm no Tommy Angelo, I'm not good enough to fold my blinds waiting for ace king in shorthanded games and still win money. I'm gonna have to figure out how he does that some day. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[mike l.]

"I'm not good enough to fold my blinds waiting for ace king in shorthanded games and still win money."

i used to think that too. i used to fret to myself "how can i do that, i will get blinded out of the game!" then i tried it and it works like a charm.

[bunky9590]

I would probably toss them here. Wait for a little better position. I would be more inclined to play KJs than Qjs, but would come in for a raise with KJ but would pass QJs does that make any sense whatsoever????

[Vehn]

So you'd fold here then?

If you said yes I'm calling you a liar.

[James282]

a lot of people would fold here every time, vehn. QJs plays like a suited 1 gapper, and can almost never expect to win unimproved. The problem with playing this UTG in a 6 handed game is that it is NOT like limping in from middle position at all. People are going to be much more aggressive with high cards, and you will hate to play this heads-up for 2 bets, because you are behind to king high. Your odds are going to be garbage even if you do get a straight or flush draw, and even if you hit top pair you will fear overcards. As mike l. pointed out, once you have exploited the tricky image long enough you can milk people with your real payoff hands. QJs is not such a hand.
-James

[mike l.]

when my game is on i am making this fold. it's very situation dependent and if it's a scenario like you describe yeah im folding it unless im tilted or something, which only accounts for maybe half the time.

[Tommy Angelo]

I'm more likely to muck QJ UTG in a short game than in a full game because in a full game it pays for me to take a shot at the blinds from utg when the live one is peeing and everyone takes a sigh. When I say take-a-shot, I don't mean rob. If one or two of the blinds calls, fine. In that case, QJ counts as a hand, plus I've got momentum and position. The main thing is if everyone folds up to the blinds, then I consider a frisky raise from utg to be a success this time.

But UTG in a six-handed game with the action players right behind me, if I don't have a pair or an ace I'm almost always out. I'll come with KQ sometimes but only because Mason does. :-)


Tommy

[ACPlayer]

The game does not seem to bad, but the seat definitely sucks. Change the seat.

Muck QJ utg in this seat. Different seat, action players having folded, raise it up.