NLHE: disproportionate river action

[Guy McSucker]

50c-$1 NLHE on Stars.

All fold to the SB with a $50 stack who just calls. I check in the BB with 8-7. I have SB covered.

Flop comes 8-8-6. I like this flop. He checks, I check. Comments?

Turn is a Q, putting a two flush on board. He checks, I check. Comments? I think perhaps I should bet here.

River is another 6, filling me up. He bets $5.

What's your move here? I made a rare move for me: a minimum raise. He moves all-in for $40 more.

Call or fold? I've seen this player make some big losing calls, but haven't really seen him bet very often.

Guy.

[dylhead]

I'd usually would like to know more about the player but I'd call. The only hands that can beat you are QQ and 66. Every other had either splits or you win. More than likely with just a call from the small blind he has either the six or the eight and he could very well be bluffing.

[illmatic]

Well, the boat is plainly obvious with the double pair and his bet/reraise on the river says he can beat the boat or he has (one of) the boats.

The thing that makes this tougher is that you checked the flop and checked the turn. So he doesn't put you on an 8. I can't put him on an 8 either, having checked to you on the turn. It's really slow playing things (although that's what you did!). It just seems like he likes the 6. The question is, is he not scared of the 8, or does he not think you have an 8. I would call here, and expect to see him with K6 or something like that, but also not be surprised to see 66. If he has an 8, he played it real slow, but he may have that too.

Really, I would have done one of two things: 1) bet the turn, raise/bet the river. It may not actually help that much, because he might put you on the Q, instead of the slowplayed 8. Or 2) Flat call the river. You've got the bluff from him already if you have him.

I always like to bet my good hands at least on the turn, because I know if I'm raised then I have to be careful. If I don't bet them and don't show any strength, then I can't gauge the response to my latter betting accurately. I question: Are they not scared of my big hand, or did I slowplay it too well?...

In short, I wouldn't want to be in this situation but I would call this bet. If he has quads or QQQ, and didn't raise your blind with the pair, so be it. You have a pretty huge hand, and if he has a huger one, then he's got to show it to you.

With the previous betting, he could be easily be making this all-in move with a 6 or an 8. If he has one of the two hands that beats you, then he has it. That's 2 hands, vs. a ton of hands that have a single 6 or an 8 in them.
Sure, there's a chance you're beat here, but I call this bet.

later,
illmatic

[Ignatius]

> He moves all-in for $40 more. [..] Call or fold?
.
Fold????? Are you kidding? Why else would you min-raise if not to provoke an all-in? Why else have you slow played the whole hand if not to get him to bet big? Also note that a pot-sized raise in this spot would have been to $40, so with only $45 left, moving in is the only reasonable amount if he decides to reraise and in no way "disproportionate".

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Also note that a pot-sized raise in this spot would have been to $40, so with only $45 left, moving in is the only reasonable amount if he decides to reraise and in no way "disproportionate".


[/ QUOTE ]

A pot raise would be $22 more.

This is, I claim, a disproportionate amount of river action. The pot was $2 going in, and now $60 has been bet on this street. My opponent has made double-pot bets twice this round.

That's why I posted the hand. I wondered if this heavy betting should give me a big clue that I was at best tied, and in that case, should I consider a fold.

Of course I called. Of course he had an eight. And a queen. Ah well.

In this instance I don't think I could have got away from the hand no matter how I bet it, but perhaps others disagree.

Guy.

[Ignatius]

> A pot raise would be $22 more.
.
My mistake - too much potlimit I guess ... Still, the only disproportionate action has been his original overbet of $5 but not the final all-in (it makes no sense to raise to $32 and keep $18 behind).
.
As for the outcome - I don't think that you could have possibly gotten away from the hand, once you decided to check the flop and even if you had bet behind him, he would have had to play along by putting in a pot committing check-raise for you to even consider a laydown.

[gavrilo]

When reading the original post.. Q8 is what came to mind especially when you said he's made some lousy calls but you haven't really seen him bet often. If that means passive, he sure seems to want to get his whole stack in the pot on the river.