Weak aces, a decision

[Rushmore]

I have decided to stop playing the weakest offsuit aces (A2-A8) almost entirely in the aggressive middle limit games I play in.

Exceptions exist when I am in a legitimate steal position, etc., but I have decided to throw them into the muck if it looks like I'll have to take a flop against aggressive players, possibly in not-great position.

I must admit, however, that mucking A8 from two in front of the button feels like giving up too much. My gut tells me to raise if nobody else is in yet, and to call if there's been just one limper.

But I want to listen to my head.

Now, I see a LOT of actual players pulling down pots with these rags. But I suspect that they're losing money on them in the long run.

Maybe I've just soured unfairly on these hands.

Guide me. Shape my future.

[ZeeJustin]

Let Abdul guide you!
http://www.posev.com/poker/holdem/strategy/preflop-abdul.html

[mike l.]

"I have decided to stop playing the weakest offsuit aces (A2-A8) almost entirely in the aggressive middle limit games I play in."

i think youll find that the vast majority of us have already done this long ago. those are awful hands.

[Rushmore]

Do you play in any very aggressive 30/60 or 40/80 games?

Because I do, and I can assure you, especially shorthanded, the majority of "us" do not seem to have gotten your newsletter.

But thanks.

I believe you are correct that they should not be played, I just don't think you're correct that everyone has had this epiphany.

[mike l.]

"Do you play in any very aggressive 30/60 or 40/80 games?"

not currently but i have before. i play in aggro 20-40 games down here.

"Because I do, and I can assure you, especially shorthanded, the majority of "us" do not seem to have gotten your newsletter."

my newsletter? how about hpfap? you didnt say anything about shorthanded. obviously you should frequently be playing and raising/reraising w/ naked aces shorthanded (although probably less than some intermediate players would think to be correct). the more shorthanded you are, the more naked aces go up in value. playing these 6-7 handed or more though for more than a blind steal/isolation attempt though is not profitable.

"But thanks."

youre welcome.

"I believe you are correct that they should not be played, I just don't think you're correct that everyone has had this epiphany."

thank god, no they havent.

[David Steele]

and to call if there's been just one limper.

Does anyone here seriously suggest calling in late position with A8o and one limper?

I think not.

D.

[Rushmore]

I think we agree.

Part of my point was that when these 6-7 handed games get flowing, these hands get shown down a LOT, and I think the hands are all -EV, even if the players are winning players.

And I think I want to confirm my resistance to them.

And I think this exchange is getting me on my way.

[Rushmore]

I have never seen anyone suggest such a thing.

But I se it done all the damned time.

And that's my point. If the hyper-aggros are going to turn the game into this thing where everyone is limping utg w/A4 and 3-betting from the button w/AT, it starts to change one's perspective.

All I'm saying is this: I do not think I have ever called from late position with A8o after one limper. But watching these lunatics jam and jam is having an effect on my perspective.

Maybe I just needed a reality check before heading back into the maelstrom.

[mike l.]

"And I think this exchange is getting me on my way.'

good. something which seems normal in the cardroom, something like playing Ace-rag offsuit in a 6-7 handed 30-60 aggro chip flinging fest, can be very hard to keep from becoming a habit. coming on here and having someone objectively distanced stand back from it and say "are you dumb or something?" when you reveal it really makes one go "woah" and rethink things.

i still remember the time i posted a hand on here and someone said i should fold JTs utg. i couldnt fathom that at all at the time, but it's become standard after a lot of thought, experience, and posting/reading here. this place is the nuts.

[Rushmore]

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
when these 6-7 handed games get flowing, these hands get shown down a LOT

[/ QUOTE ]

They do.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the hands are all -EV, even if the players are winning players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course there's a time and place for everything, but at the most general level, I definitely agree.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
someone said i should fold JTs utg.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm.... Maybe I should try that sometime.

[nykenny]

while as a tightening exercise it makes some sense, giving up Axs blindly without any consideration of position, cards out and player quality is nuts.

example, two weak ABC players limp in middle position, from history, they will raise with AK-AT, AA-99. you hold A8s in cut-off. you muck?

example, first in from CO+1, the whole table has a habbit of play ANY ace. you know no one has folded an Ace. and you have A9o. u look at your the CO and Button, both tight straight-forward players, ready to muck. you fold?

well you get my point, in general, Axs or Axo are bad hands not worth playing. and it's clear muck to any preflop action. but to convince yourself to stay off them completely, you are missing out on +EV situations that are not so infrequent.

Kenny

[mike l.]