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jt1
11-25-2003, 08:02 PM
If you're drawing to the nuts and you are head to head or think that the other opponents will call, should you raise?

Example. Head to head. AQ in late.

Flop: 4h 6h Qs. checked to you. you bet. enemy calls.

turn. Qh. check to you. you bet. enemy raises. (probably against a flush or a boat and are drawing to the biggest boat. should you raise?)

jt1
11-25-2003, 08:23 PM
Also assume that you have the odds to call.

jt1
11-25-2003, 08:31 PM
the answer must be no. that play looses you $.50 everytime you do it.

daryn
11-25-2003, 09:12 PM
you probably don't want to raise against a possible flush, but it depends of course. he could be raising you with a weaker Q, not only a flush. reraising could be correct, calling could be correct. it depends.

Nottom
11-25-2003, 11:11 PM
I'd 3-bet that about 90% of the time.

George Rice
11-26-2003, 12:10 AM
You are less than 50/50 (you have up to 10 outs out of 46 cards) to improve so you shouldn't raise. Also, you may get re-raised if your opponent has queens full, or even a smaller boat.

There is also a chance he is making this move with a weaker queen, or simply trying to represent a queen, flush or boat, so you shouldn't fold.

So against most players just call the turn bet and raise the river if you improve and call on the river if you don't.

jt1
11-26-2003, 01:27 AM
I was working out something in my head and I was way off in my thinking, but in the particular case that I described I would re-raise anyway. The enemy, very likely, will peg your re-raise to indicate a boat or better and therefore would only call and check the river. If you improve, you bet, and if not then call. assuming you'd call the river bet anyway you still loose the same amount if you don't improve, and there's always the chance that he'll fold either on a re-raise or on a river bet.

Nottom
11-26-2003, 10:47 AM
I think you are living in weak-tight land if you think a heads-up turn check-raise = flush or boat all the time here.

jt1
11-26-2003, 11:25 AM
Tell you what: I used to fold automatically whenever raised on the turn and I only had top pair. Now I call down unless up against someone I know to never bluff. I still think though that the vast majority of the time a raise on the turn means your top pair-top kicker is behind.

colgin
11-26-2003, 12:04 PM
You left out a lot of critical information that makes it a little hard to answer your question. What limit is this being played at and what is the overall texture of the table? I would ordinarily assume a loose table but you are heads-up on the flop so that may not be correct. Also, how did the pre-flop betting go? If you are heads up on the flop and you say you are in late postion then either there was an EP or MP raiser and you cold-called and everyone else folded, or you were an LP limper and everyone folded but the big blind. Thsi will affect the range of hands you can put enemy on. Without knowing any of that I have to agree with nottom that you can't assume you are behind here and therefore a raise is jstified on the turn. However, if because of these other factors you are pretty sure you are behind then calling down to the river would be appropriate. If you "know" you are behind and are drawing I am not sure you do have the odds to call here. You say you are drawing to the biggest boat. That is not correct. An Ace falling could give enemy Aces full of Queens if he had pocket Aces. This may not be likely although it is possible (more so if he raised from EP pre-flop). Only a Queen falling would gives you the absolute nuts. Even assuming your 4 outs are all good, I think the pot would not be big enough in this heads-up scenario to justify a call here if you knew enemy hada made baot or flush. Hoever, I don't think you should assume that here.

Nottom
11-26-2003, 01:49 PM
You don't have top pair, you have trips-top kicker, thats a big difference. Most any Q is going to check-raise you here.