another tourney scenario

[morgant]

this has really been helping my game so here goes....

UB 30+ tourn. 186 entrants
i am in 12/35 place. top twenty pay
blinds 200/400. i have 6840 in chips
p1 1215 in chips goes all, p2 (5130 in chips) on the button calls. i am in the small blind with two jacks???? what do i do. now after the preflop decision, how to play the flop that came 6 6 7.

[Bozeman]

You might want to mention your stack size, but I would move in preflop against most players.

Craig

[Hotrod0823]

I would push in with JJ. The first raiser could have anything as calling would have put 1/3 of there stack in play with another T400 blind on the next hand. IF they have anything remotely playable they will push in. The button calling I think is a play to get the blinds to fold and get heads up with the short stack raise from the EP.

My guess would be the EP raiser has a middle pair or suited face cards or maybe worse. And the button has a mid pair or suited face cards. You Jacks should be good. If the button had a bigger pair why wouldn't they push in themselves?

[CrisBrown]

Hi morgant,

I'd move all-in pre-flop, with the intention of shutting the caller out of the hand and going heads-up vs. the short stack's all-in. Obviously, that eliminates the question of how to play the flop.

Cris

[morgant]

so its unanimous to move in......unfortuneatly i got stage fright and folded /images/graemlins/crazy.gif. you guys are on the money the ss had a 8, button had 88. i woulda won. i play super tight when it comes close to money time, aparantly too much so. i wound up getting myself blinded down and clawing to make the loot...once i did though, i felt comfortable to return to my normal game and finished second, wooohooo. i think i need to find a better balance of tight/aggressiveness when the money is near, might bust out a little more but i will make more final tables which = $$$$$$
posting these hands is working wonders..thanks you poker mavens.

[CrisBrown]

Hi morgant,

<i play super tight when it comes close to money time, aparantly too much so.>

Definitely so in this instance. The thing is, most people will be playing tight when it comes to bubble time. When you have a hand like JJ, that's to your advantage, because JJ isn't a hand you really want to see a flop with anyway. So push all-in there and take advantage of people's tight play to pick up the blinds and antes.

Here someone had made a desperation all-in ahead of you, and a slightly smaller stack (than you) called. You would rather have that caller out of the hand, for two reasons. First, JJ plays better heads-up (fewer bullets to dodge), and second, you weren't going to bust if you lost to the very short stack regardless, but you COULD have come close to busting vs. the caller. So get him out of the equation, maximize your equity with a strong hand, and let the cards fall where they may.

Cris

[morgant]

that was the problem, if the button hadn't called i certainly would have. if i pushed, he was showing some pretty wild tendancies and i didnt want to have a 3-way all-in..but i still should have moved in and let him decide..
take it easy

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
that was the problem, if the button hadn't called i certainly would have. if i pushed, he was showing some pretty wild tendancies and i didnt want to have a 3-way all-in..but i still should have moved in and let him decide..
take it easy

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

you need to rethink your evaluation of the situation. First, a short stack makes an all in play. this means little more than he probably has a lone A or K or any pocket pair.

The caller thinks he has something of a hand, and wants to play against the all in player. But he is weak! If he had a really big hand he would reraise here to assure going heads up with the all-in player. You also mentioned that he had some 'wild' tendancies, which further weakens his probable hand.

Your JJ is ahead of all but 3 of 167 possible starting hands. you're also getting better than 2 to 1 on your money.

This is a must must all-in situation.

Regards,

Scott

[DougBrennan]

[ QUOTE ]
The caller thinks he has something of a hand, and wants to play against the all in player. But he is weak! If he had a really big hand he would reraise here to assure going heads up with the all-in player

[/ QUOTE ]

I will sometimes just call an all-in that I have well covered if I have AA, looking to get another caller. Is this a play I shouldn't be making?

[SoBeDude]

If you play enough tournies, you'll see the guys with monster hands preflop that try to get cute, slowplay, and end up losing big.

Heads up in a tourney (final 2) just earlier today, my 34o beat the SB's AcKc because he got cute and slowplayed.

Slowplaying preflop is usually a mistake.

-Scott

[PDX_David]

Is slowplaying big hands always bad?

Here is an example:

I had pocket pair Jacks, don't remember position. Early in a $5 sng at Stars. The guy to my left would go all-in on just about any hand that was checked to him after the flop. I limped in and the poker gods hit me with 2 more jacks on the flop giving me quads...

Play was checked around to the guy, and as expected he went all-in. Folded around to me and being the smartace that I am... before pushing in I typed out that I was hoping he would do that. Not real nice, but neither is going all-in on just about every hand.

I love that story. My point is, should I have raised with pp jacks or is slowplaying there okay?

What hands would you say are never slowplay hands? AA, KK, AKs?

This one obviously worked out great because I knew what the player would do, but is it right any other time?

Thanks,
PDX

[SoBeDude]

I'd say preflop there is no such thing as a slowplay hand. You need to raise to protect your good hand and improve the odds of winning the hand. Remember you're better off with a higher probability of winning a smaller pot, then a lower probability of a really big pot.

The problem with a big hand like AA when you slowplay, is you will lose a lot if someone else hits, but make only a little if everyone else misses. the guy you let in cheap with 47s flops 4 7 K, he check-raises you, you're probably going to put him all in and you'll lose your whole stack, possibly bust out.

But there are such things as slowplay situations. If you have AA in early position and you know there is someone later who will make a big raise, you can limp, then reraise all in preflop. but you still should be putting a lot of money in preflop with your big hands.

-Scott