Too Tricky For My Own Good?

[Schneids]

I'm in my SB, second hand at this 10/20 6-max Party table, so I don't know much about the players.

I'm dealt [Qs, Qd].
UTG+1 limps, CO raises, Button three-bets. I called. This will become my question at the end of the post, would it have been better to four-bet? I figured I’d cold call here, then the flop would probably get checked to the button, then I’d raise him assuming no ace or king out there. Both other players call.

Flop of [2c, 4h, 7d].

UTG+1 bet, and CO and Button both call, so, there goes my plan. I call here, decide to bet the turn and hope UTG+1 raises me.

Turn: [Tc]

Plans goes to form, and both CO and Button fold. I check call the rest of the way and lose to pocket 7’s.

I know this is results orientated, but maybe this loss could have been avoided had I 4-bet preflop and made UTG+1 decide whether another 3-bets cold was worth seeing a flop with his 77? Or is my play on this hand sound, and I just got unlucky, since if he calls two cold with 77 he’ll probably call another 3 cold?

Any thoughts and comments appreciated.

[onegymrat]

This is an excellent question. Before reading your results, I felt that I would have capped the bet for sure. Queens are a good enough hand to do so. A number of things can be happening for button to 3-bet, AA?, KK?, AKs?, who knows? Or perhaps it's just his way of isolating the raiser with a so-so hand. Since you were new to the table, I feel the right thing to do is to drive out the rest who wouldn't put 2 or 3 more bets.

I understand your strategy for the flop, but it can still be achieved by capping preflop. You could still check to the button, who you assume will bet, and then raise to isolate.

Your real question, due to the results, is probably would the BB have called three bets cold? If you played with him long enough, you probably would of figured out that answer. If he is a loose player, there's no way he would have folded preflop. If I were raised by two rocks, I'd fold for sure. As for now, just consider yourself unlucky and cap that bet next time. I guess my opinion is, whether or not he would have called the cap, a four-bet would be correct. Good luck.

[Schneids]

Thanks for the feedback. Actually though the 77 hand was a limper, not the BB. Little difference.

Yeah, my thinking was the button was most likely AK, or a PP. Given the nature of what I've observed to be a typical 6-max game on Party I wasn't too concerned about the odds of the button having AA and KK, since there are many, many other hands a lot of players on Party could 3-bet in that spot. At least, that was my thinking anyway.

Thanks for letting me know you think 4-bets was the better play PF. Anyone else?

[ZeeJustin]

I don't like this play at all. The only reason not to 4 bet preflop is to set yourself up for a check raise. I certainly don't like you betting out the turn, when you have a perfect check raise oppurtunity. In hind-sight you were beat by the flopped set, but I think most of the time your hand is good here.

You seem to want to check raise to drive hands out, but I think this is a hand to check raise to get the maximum in the pot. I don't think you want people that are drawing to 3 outs to fold on the turn.

[theriverwild]

well it's possible the guy wouldn't fold to a 4 bet preflop anyway depending on his play once he had already committed a bet. But I think it could have been played a couple of ways and i think yourse was fine. when an UTG limper bets into the 3 better with that flop and he's a solid player u have to wonder if he either 1) limped with a monster 2) Quite possibly has everyone badly beat. When a limper bets into a 3 better preflop he is usually way ahead or behind. with that flop i couldn't imagine him having some kind of draw and limping from early position assuming he's solid. Given that u were probally beat at least in my eyes i think the check raise on the turn would have been a bad play. I would have probally bet out and seen if i got raised. If the limper has half a brain he has to know that someone has an overpair in all likelyhood, and they're gonna raise his flop bet. slight chance he's just checking the waters with a hand like J10 but i think u played it fine postflop. Preflop the cap is debatable. I would only cap if i thought it would get someone out. Otherwise i would go for the check raise assuming the 3 better would bet the flop.

[lil']

I would cap pre-flop.

As for the flop play, the bet from UTG+1 is a little scary. It almost looks like he is begging to be raised when he bets into that crew. I would check raise the flop anyway to see where I'm at, but also because you may be best.