He called me a "N-----": online poker.

[all_aces]

Hello everyone,

Thought I'd share an unfortunate experience I recently had online at a poker site, and I may blather on for some time.

So anyways, I play 25-50 online shorthanded games on a very regular basis. Players come and go as you'd expect, and recently a player who i'll call 'Glen' bought in and sat down. He immediately made an impression on everybody by going absolutely ballistic any time he was beat.

And he wasn't beat very much, he's pretty good, and was winning quite a bit, but the guy just hates to lose. If anyone saw the turn for one bet without the stone cold nuts and won, he'd go on and on and on calling them 'fish' and/or 'chasers' etcetera... And I mean he wouldn't stop, just relentless, regardless of whether the person under attack tried to defend their play or not.

I'll move it along. I had basically no interaction with him in this regard, because I play in such a way that is not conducive to putting people on 'bad beats'. (I'll take a moment here to say that in an aggressive 5-player game I don't think it's possible to put a REALLY bad beat on someone, because half the time people are betting with nothing....) However, in one hand I had AKd, and it was capped all 5 ways preflop, and again on the flop. The flop was Q high, with 2 diamonds. So obviously I like my chances. Missed the flush, but hit a king on the riv and bet it and won a pretty huge pot. Glen had AQ, and I didn't hear the end of it. I tried to explain that it was a multiway pot, with plenty of odds to chase the flush and the overcards, etc.... and he got so mad,

he called me a "n". ("N" is short for a racist word which you can all now guess.) I was floored. I mean call me a moron, an idiot, a fish, a chaser, I don't care, but that to me was unacceptable. So I told him I was about to email the site to complain about what I felt was excessively profane and ignorant language, and then I went ahead and did just that.

The site emailed me back saying that they would look into it, and I guess they did because for the next week I didn't hear one word out of him. I assume he temporarily lost his chat priveleges. However, last night he was chatting up a storm so I guess the probationary period is over. And he was the same old Glen. Just evil, bitter, and berating every player every time he was beat, in a legitimate manner or 'otherwise'. He could always find something wrong with the way a hand was played... any hand, by anyone. And people just started leaving, and the game broke, and I know it was because they were afraid to play against him for fear of reprimand.

He also mentioned the "N" word incident, saying he was only joking. But I am absolutely positively sure he wasn't. He said it in anger. And I guess my question for you, if I have one at all, is:

Does it really matter if he was joking or not?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I tried to explain

Never try to explain.

Does it really matter if he was joking or not?

No, it doesn't. I'd still ignore him. I just think it's sort of weird to call someone you can't see a racial name.

[andyfox]

I don't play internet poker, but I thought one of the advantages over B&M play was not having to put up with the assholes. I guess that's not true.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play internet poker, but I thought one of the advantages over B&M play was not having to put up with the assholes. I guess that's not true.



[/ QUOTE ]

Andy, most sites have a "Disable Chat" feature where you are able to blank out any particular individual. The posters site may have one as well but he made the choice to participate in the chat so I fail to see his complaint having any validity if these are indeed the circumstances.

[Zele]

No, it doesn't matter if he was joking, and it is shocking that that's all the site did. Whether or not he has the right to type it at all, allowing something that offensive to be aired in a poker room, virtual or not, is hugely destuctive for the game. Obviously that's not the only reason I'd be outraged, but you'd think that reason would certainly be of conern to the site and all of its customers.

[oddjob]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play internet poker, but I thought one of the advantages over B&M play was not having to put up with the assholes. I guess that's not true.



[/ QUOTE ]

as my friend would say. no one gets punched in the face over the internet

[all_aces]

"I fail to see his complaint having any validity"

Wow. I wasn't expecting that. OK Wake Up CALL, let's say I do turn off the chat. He's still going to be an idiot to the other players. So let's say they all turn off their chat too, as you suggest. Well what do we have now? A situation where the idiot has the freedom and the luxury to speak at will, but everybody else is handcuffed and mute? Something here doesn't quite add up Wake Up CALL, and I think u can see what it is.

I enjoy chatting with the players. They are for the most part nice people, and what I find most interesting is that they come from literally all over the world. I'm not going to deprive myself of what is usually a positive online poker experience because of one bad apple.

An extreme metaphor: if everyone who was ever mugged never went outside again, what kind of world would it be? Extreme yes, but u can see the point I'm trying to make.

As for the site's muting capabilities, they are as follows: if you load the nice-looking version of their software (mellow lighting, nice aroma, ambient music, nice waitresses...) then u can either turn the chat on or off. Meaning if you don't want to hear one person you don't hear anyone at all. What I discovered after this incident is that if you load their "light" software (flourescent lighting, hard chairs, smokey air, no waitresses...), then u can 'mute' any individual player u don't want to hear.

So I play the light version now, sacrificing ambiance in favour of maintaining the social healthy poker environment I've grown to know and love.

[glen]

It wasn't me I swear! :cool:

[baggins]

ambience is an issue for *online poker*??

put a cd in the stereo while you play, man...

[Wake up CALL]

all_aces I do believe I was misunderstood. I suggested you turn off the offending players chat not your own. Where I play there is a feature to turn off chat individually and I qualified my answer as being applicable only if the site you were playing on had said feature. Is this more clear? Sorry if I caused confusion earlier. Personally if I do not like what someone is telling me I don't listen. I find children have turned this skill into a finely honed art form! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mosch]

Most sites do have disable chat, both total and for an individual, but I find that's a terrible solution. I also like to have chat on, and ninety-eight percent of the time I'm glad I have it on. Keeping a friendly repoire is a great benefit if you want to rush 50BBs off a table without scaring off the fish.

[all_aces]

lol no problem Wake Up... guess I'm just a little sensitive lately... /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[all_aces]

as I'm sure you know I was kidding, but I don't think I have a great sense of humour lol. As for CDs, lately it's been a pretty bizarre but dedicated mix of the new Lyle Lovett, The Style Council, the new Rufus Wainwright, and of course The Soundtrack of our Lives when I'm feeling veeeyerrrrrreeee aggggrrrayyyssssseeeve.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
he made the choice to participate in the chat so I fail to see his complaint having any validity if these are indeed the circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. FWIW, this stuff never bothers me. But if it did, I don't think that I should be the one forced to take some action to rectify the situation. I think it's ridiculous for you to say that a complaint about abusive behavior does not "have validity" because the player has the ability to turn off viewing of the abuser's chat.

[all_aces]

Andy,

As oddjob's friend succinctly put it, "no-one gets punched in the face on the internet." This encourages people, it seems, to be assholes with abandon. AWA's, I guess. Anonymity seems to make people both very brave and very ignorant, which doesn't say much about the true nature of mankind.

Not to get completely off topic here, but what online does have going for it is proximity, primarily. The closest casino for me is 1.5 hrs away, so I was playing in clubs for a while. Then I realized that walking into a dark parking lot, in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night, with thousands of dollars of cash in my pocket, was probably a bad idea. Add to this the fact that there are 10 angry people watching you leave, and I decided to look for other options.

Also you choose the music, the TV station, the refreshments and the attire (or lack of it in the summer). So I decided that online was the most logical option for me.

I do love B&M games. The social aspect blows a stupid online chat box right out of the water. And the feel of the cards, the chips, the felt, all these things. Plus sometimes online is just a little too convenient if you're just a little too bored. But like I said, for me the travel and risk factor was getting to be too much, so as a result I have to put up with people being brave anonymous ethereal assholes.

Regards and gl,
all_aces

[all_aces]

Zele,

I totally agree with you. I'm sure the other players at the table totally agreed with us as well, because they encouraged me to file the complaint.

As for it being destructive for the game, I understand what you mean, but it is destructive in a more literal sense as well, and one that concerned me almost as much as Glen's choice of words for me.

The weak players scattered. It's happened a few times now. Some win a bit, some lose a bit, but you can tell that if they stick around in a shorthanded game long enough their mistakes will catch up to them pretty darn fast. And every time Glen starts in, one leaves, then another. Then a few of us wait, one more comes, beats Glen, gets insulted and leaves.

It's killing the games. I've pointed this out to him. At first I didn't feel it was my business, but now it's killing my, well, business. He doesn't get it. And the site can suspend his chat for extreme incidents like the one I mentioned, but I don't think they can do that for just constant run-of-the-mill criticism.

It's costing them money too, though. Maybe their bottom line will prompt them to disable his chat permanently.

[WillMagic]

I've had this experience before. There was one guy who wouldn't stop, he called me n-----, n----- lover, coon, you name it. After a couple of these, I told him that I by the end of the session, he would be busted and I would take the majority of his money.

And I backed it up /images/graemlins/smile.gif According to PokerTracker, I've won more off of this player specifically than from any other player.

Talk about satisfaction.

Will

[NoTalent]

This happened to me when I was playing on the $25 NL tables at party. I can't remember the guys name, but it wasn't a particularly interesting hand. I had AA, and he had JJ. I raised, and he went all in and I called. Flop was AJx. I took it down, I think for the tune of $40-$50 from him. Then he starts going off about how he's going to kill me, I'm a N** lover, N this Nthat, I almost fell out of my chair laughing! idiot.

[Jim Kuhn]

Was the person that said it actually a black person? Do you get offended when the 'n' word is mentioned in a rap song? Many black people are offended if a non black person says that word but think it is cool if a black person says it. Sounds like a double standard to me.

What do you think would be the appropriate response from the poker room? I think a few days without chat would suffice. A warning could be made if the player berates others they will lose their chat forever.

[all_aces]

No the person who said it isn't black. I know this because he said there are no black people where he lives (Aspen: "America's richest city" as he will point out again and again). So since there are no black people in Aspen, him and his friends don't see there being any problem with using the word "all the time".

I pointed out that not everybody at the site is from Aspen. He said everybody should wish they were, and went on to insult my country (Canada). He said that he's better than us Canadians.

I think he was trying to put me on tilt. I won 3k from him that session, no exxageration, in about an hour and a half.

I guess it wasn't such a bad chat we had after all. And for those who are curious, no I'm not black. But that's a pretty terrible word to call someone if you're mad at them, like it's the best insult they can come up with.

As for the best response, as I mentioned his chat was suspended for a week. I'm not sure if they have any plans to address this situation on a more permanent basis, but I'd like to see that happen.

Regards,
all_aces

[Michael Davis]

I have no idea whether or not you are black, or whether or not the fellow from Aspen knows it, but this kind of insult being tossed around as if it is nothing should be offensive to anyone who receives it, no matter what their race.

This player should definitely lose his chat priviliges. While he should not be kicked off the site, I wouldn't mind if he were drawn and quartered.

BTW, this is clearly not anything close to the use of any word in a rap song, or any term of friendship or recognition from one person to another (known) person. This is clearly the worst possible use of this word; meaning is always situational, and in this case we can only conclude the worst.

-Mike

[Ryan_21]

"("N" is short for a racist word which you can all now guess.)"

"Does it really matter if he was joking or not?"

Who gives a crap? Saying N*gger doesnt make one a racist. A wise man who post on here under the alias Makaveli, once told me that, "being racist, isnt using insulting language, being racist is believing that your race is better than anothers." From your post, "Mr. Glen" never insisted that one race is better than another, so chill out.


People over react to comments nowadays, I mean really, chink, spick, cracker, nigger???? What does it matter? We all need to lighten up, and not be so over sensitive, I dont know you but I'll bet you are white and if Im right, that is funny as heck if you are and making a big fuss over this, lighten up dude.

"and I know it was because they were afraid to play against him for fear of reprimand."

Dude, once again, lighten up. You were playing online, yeah online. What reprimand? What are you guys really scared of him? Whats he gonna do come through the computer and stab you??? Turn the friggin chat off.

[all_aces]

"being racist is believing that your race is better than anothers." - Ryan 21

Ryan,

Please read my post, 2 above yours.

Regards,
all_aces

[Ryan_21]

Im sorry Ace's but the bump feature is messing me up, b/c there are no threads above mine? Sorry if I sound retarded?

Ryan_21

[Ryan_21]

OK I think I found it. You are refering to the remark he made about canadians? Arent canadians white? So a white person from usa is making a remark about white canadians is racist? I dont think so. White Americans are the same race as white canadians. Both are Caucasion, so therefore the remark can not be takin as racist, American is not a race, and canadian is not a race? So whats your point?

Ryan_21

[all_aces]

No problem Ryan, it's called "Re: What would u have done?". It demonstrates at the very least the fact that he said it in anger, and the fact that he positions himself over others. When these types of people use this word, I do believe it's racist.

But I agree with you to an extent... not everybody who says it thinks it and means it. I do feel it should be avoided tho, for the simple reason that there are people out there who do find it offensive, and probably for good reasons that we can't comprehend.

Regards,
all_aces

[all_aces]

Ryan,

I think through the numerous posts I've written in this thread I've said about all I can say regarding this situation. And I've found that most people agree with me.

That being said:

He may have the right to say it, but I also have the right to complain about it.

And you have the right to find nothing offensive about it at all.

Us Canadians, we're so damn diplomatic... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gl,
all_aces

[PokerPrince]

The bickering is actually much worse online Andy. It's much easier to say crude and hurtfull things over a computer because you don't have to look the other guy in the eye. Quite frequently you'll see people ranting and berating weaker players in an online game.

PokerPrince

[MRBAA]

It's harder to short the pot though, eh?

[ElSapo]

People over react to comments nowadays, I mean really, chink, spick, cracker, nigger???? What does it matter?

People do overreact to comments these days. The world has basically worked itself into a situation where a lot of people are angry and a lot of other people will do anything to avoid offending. Middle ground needs to be found somewhere.

That being said, I find it very offensive. He may not mean it when he says it, but there are some things that are so steeped in history and connotation that they should not, in my opinion, be tossed around, even jokingly.

A disclaimer is that I'm from the south, and so I have to admit that to some extent I'm one of those people I mentioned earlier, who do anything to avoid offending. I tend to err to the side of caution, and most certainly in matters of race. I am, probably, over sensitive to these things.

That said, many people find this word, and others like it, extremely offensive. That alone seems an argument for not using it and I would have reported it as well.

[Ryan_21]

"That said, many people find this word, and others like it, extremely offensive."

Im not doubting that it is a highly offesive word, but should it be?

I dont think so. I mean its not the slave trade days and the 60's are over, the word just doesnt hold the same meaning in my opinion. And for a white person to call another white person a n*gger is just hilarious and just goes to show that the word has lost its degrading meaning, and the fact that he was offended by it is even more hilarious in my opinion. Now the canadian remark is another story, thats is something to be offended by I guess although its not such a big deal to work yourself up in a tissy (not saying he did) and it certainly is not a racist comment.

Ryan_21

[Homer]

So when people say that Stu Ungar wasn't as good as people think it bothers you, but when people call each other the "n" word it's no big deal?

-- Homer

[Ryan_21]

"So when people say that Stu Ungar wasn't as good as people think it bothers you, but when people call each other the "n" word it's no big deal?"

Yeah.

Its even funnier when white people call each other the N word.

Ryan_21

[PokerPrince]

And a LOT harder for you to lick my bunghole.

PokerPrince

[Greg (FossilMan)]

If he's continually abusive, even if it usually includes no profanity, the site absolutely can and positively should remove his chat privileges forever.

An isolated incident or two is one thing. But it sounds like it's continuous from him. I would gladly remove his chat if I owned the site, as I feel it's costing me money if I don't do it. Plus, it's the right thing to do.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Michael Davis]

Saying "nigger" as an insult is a way in which you demonstrate the belief that one race is superior to another. All of that is implied within the word.

-Mike

[rigoletto]

People over react to comments nowadays, I mean really, chink, spick, cracker, nigger???? What does it matter? We all need to lighten up, and not be so over sensitive, I dont know you but I'll bet you are white and if Im right, that is funny as heck if you are and making a big fuss over this, lighten up dude.

So words doesn't mean anything anymore you mudderphocking son of a syphilitic whore!

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi All Aces,
To hell with him. Just play good and take his money.

What better revenge than to show his intellect sux by having his pile of chips to prove it?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sincerely,
AA

[Ryan_21]

"Saying "nigger" as an insult is a way in which you demonstrate the belief that one race is superior to another."

You got to be kidding me, how can one caucasion person call another caucasion person a n*gger and have the meaning imply that his race is superior?

Besides, the word has many different meanings, you can't define it one way and say it implys exactly that. Calling someone a n*gger as an insult can just as easily be meant as the same as calling them an @sshole. Just because you call someone a n*gger doesnt necessarily mean you are calling them a "sorry black person" or whatever the proper definition is.

Ryan_21

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
Arent canadians white?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not all of us.

[M.B.E.]

All_aces, I agree with you that the other player's behaviour, in all aspects but particularly the racial epithet, was abhorrent. What site was this on? Suspending his chat privileges for only one week is very lenient. Ryan's comments in this thread are ridiculous.