paradise 2/4 pot limit omaha

[stripsqueez]

i need to read a book about this game and i've been told which ones - i do ok for a novice - its nice to know its right to play weak/tight after lots of short handed hold'em

i sit down with the $400 buy in and wait 5 hands for the blinds to come around - the avergae pot is $162 and 55% seeing the flop - the game is 9 handed - the guy on my immediate right has raised pre-flop 3 of the 5 hands i watch - this tactic is going ok for him because he has $2100 in front of him - he raises again when i post the BB and i throw some crap away - next i get KK76 with a diamond and club flush draw - 3 limpers to the button raiser who conservatively makes it $8 to play - i call, as does the BB and all the limpers - 6 see a flop of K108 2 spades

i bet the pot thinking i could use some blinds in this game - the BB who started the hand with about $600 bets the pot too and all fold to me

please tell me if its bad before this point but include in any answer what do i do now ?

thanks

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Namebejed7]

I'll take a stab at this because I am trying to learn omaha and would like my thought process anylized. First off, I would probably raise preflop since the only hands that beat me are Aces or better coordinated kings, but it is nice to see a flop first sometimes in omaha. On the flop, you did exactly what you wanted (minus a redraw) by making trips, also the top set on the board. I think the only option to your opponents reraise is to reraise the pot (by my calculations that would put you all in, but with the current nuts I would want to make a flush/straight draw pay to hit.). I read the big blind for a limped 88 or 10 10 and thinks he has the best hand, although I have seen draws reraise on the come in PLO. Nonetheless, you know you have the best hand here, I think all you can do is get the money in with the odds and either hope for low non spades or that you fill up.

[nicky g]

Well, reraising the pot, which puts you pretty much all-in with the nuts, can't be bad, though be prepared to be outdrawn. Just calling leaves you out of position on the turn and a bunch of scare cards can kill your hand and/or action. It's perfectly possible that your opponnent has some kind of monster draw that makes him favourite but it's unlikely and it's impossble for you to be making a big mistake by getting it all-in here. i think it's fine up to here; you ahve a strong hand but are out of position so i wouldn't reraise preflop.

These stakes seem very high for a self-described novice. Why not try the smaller games to start with?

[Paul2432]

Re-raising pre-flop is not a good play. KKxx even double suited is not a strong hand in Omaha, especially out of position.

On the flop, it is quite possible that you are a big statistical underdog to a hand with a big straight draw and a flush draw (QsJsTh9h being one example, you are a 60:40 dog). There are a few ways to play this hand. Re-raise all-in is certainly a defensible play. Alternatively, just call. If a blank comes or the board pairs, move all-in, and fold if a scare card comes. I think you are not costing your self much EV if any playing that way, and you reduce your swings quite a bit.

Paul

[Graham]

You're hand's not near good enough to reraise preflop in the worst position.

Flop KT8, with 2 spades. You can't possibly fold to all the scare cards that might come on the turn here when you're out of position.

In this spot, it's far better to get the money in right now on the flop! Reraise the max - no question.

[Guy McSucker]

I like your play preflop. You can't fold this hand for a minimum raise, obviously, but reraising wil just get you part way in and out of position against one or two callers. Take the flop and look for a set of kings and/or a nice fat draw.

For the flop play, you have the choice of raising all-in, or calling and making a decision on fourth street. Let's see what you might do on the turn.

So far, you have bet $48 I think, and been raised $144 more. If you call, this will leave you with (under?) $200 and a pot of $432. So if a scare card comes, and there are a lot of them, you check and he bets, you will have the pot odds to call looking for a house. (Well okay not quite if you have the full $200, but there's enough of a chance that he's betting a worse hand than yours to make it a call in this situation.)

So I don't agree with paul's advice to call now and then check-fold if a scare card comes, because you are not deep enough to fold.

He could have a big draw which makes you an underdog, as paul suggested, or he could have a draw over which you are the favourite (quite likely I think), or a hand that you are absolutely strangling, like a set or two pair.

On the turn, you will either get a blank (not many of those), a scare card, or one that pairs the board. If he's drawing he will likely fold when the board pairs. If he has a set or two pair, he will come with you; let's hope he didn't make quads. If a blank falls, again I suspect all the money will go in. If a scare card comes, you can't fold if he bets, but you might lose your market if he had two pair, and if he's on a draw that misses, again you won't get any money out of him.

I don't see any mileage in just calling now. It lets him off the hook for those times you have him strangled or he misses his draw, but doesn't get you out of trouble if the draw comes in on fourth street.

Raise all-in.

Guy.

[Paul2432]

After further review, I agree. Re-raise all-in.

Paul

[Acesover8s]

You've played it fine so far. Don't reraise out of position in a game you just sat down in (unless you have 2244, the Presto of PLO).

On the flop you have two choices. Reraise or call to see the turn.

If you reraise now, a savvy opponent may be able to get away from an underset, or you could be behind a huge draw.

If you call and wait for the turn you are out of position, and you cant be positive if the next card hit your opponent. Oh sure the 9 of spades makes an easy fold to a pot size bet. But what about a red heart? Also if the board pairs now you've given your opponent an easy escape.

So, unless the variance means a lot to you, reraise now. You have a good chance of going broke on this pot, but that is PLO, you must have a thick skin to play this game.

P.S. This post reminds me of my first PLO post from a few years back, I was playing $5-$10 my first time and flopped a set of Kings on what I thought was an innocuous board KTx with two diamonds. Something I've thought of since then and maybe you should too, is why are you paying your tuition in such a big game if you are a beginner.

[stripsqueez]

thanks for the replies - lots of useful stuff in there - a couple of you nailed it

i just called the flop - the 8 of clubs turned and i checked as did the BB - blank on the river and i bet $100 and he folded - felt bad - he obviously had the drawing hand that never arrived and i hate that i let him get out of it cheeply

i can handle the variance of reraising the pot and it doesnt trouble me to put the $$ in - i was unsure how good a play it was - certainly i was conscious that i could be the underdog and i was also conscious that once the turn hit my posistion would be much clearer

i have been playing this game regularly for 3-4 months and have probably logged about 150 hours - i don't keep good records but i'm in front - i play in smaller schools as well but i figure the 2/4 game is a better game and therefore a better place to learn

stripsqueez - chickenhawk