One of my first posts : QJs in MP

[GuyOnTilt]

I'm taking some time tonight to look back through my stats, hand histories, and notes from live games to see if I can find some leaks. Anyway, I came across this old hand from about 6 months ago and I found it very interesting. Keep in mind I had only been playing poker for 2 months when this occurred. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Playing 6/12 9-handed. Table is very loose/passive except for BB in this hand who is very aggressive on all streets if he's never slowed down.

I'm dealt Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif in MP. UTG limps, folds to MP1 who limps, I limp in. Folds to CO limper, Button folds, SB completes, BB knuckles. 6 to the flop for 6 SB's.

Flop comes: Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, BB bets, folds to me and I raise. CO calls 2 cold, SB folds, BB 3-bets. I call and CO calls. 3 to the turn for 7.5 BB's.

Turn comes: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif[Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]

BB bets out, I raise, CO 3-bets, and BB caps. I think and finally muck.

Here's what I was thinking back then: "I have to be behind, and I muck figuring that I'm drawing to 3 clean outs, maybe 4 if they both flopped sets. And there's always the off-chance one has a set, and the other has AQ, which would give me 3 more outs, but that's so unlikely I didn't factor it into my decision. I can't beat both of them without improving, and even getting 17:2 I still don't have the odds to suck out, even with the 4 or 6 extra bets I'd make on the river if I did improve, and knowing that if I call the turn, I must call the river which could be 2 or 3 more bets."

What's right and what's wrong with how I played this hand?

GoT

[Guido]

I'm not as good as you are but I will give it a shot.

I think limping is fine. If you were one or two possitions later, I would probably raise with 2 limpers.

I think a raise is obvious on the flop. I don't see any point in capping because you're probably behind to a set, two pair or KQo. I don't think AQ is an option. So the flop play is fine IMO.

I think mucking the turn is a big mistake. You could have the best hand, but even if you didn't you still have 10 outs in the best case and 6 in the worst case. In the worst case you need 6.67:1 to call. The pot odds are 17.5:2 = 8.75:1 which is plenty to call even without the implied odds.

What do you think about my reasoning?

[george w of poker]

what are the 6 outs in the worst case?

[bugstud]

against AQ/KQ and 88, 3 6'sto a chop and 3 jacks. Against 2 sets, case Q, 3 jacks. Against Q8 and 66, 2 8's for a chop and 3 jacks...yech. Then again, you could be against partypoker idiots with A8 and JJ here...so who knows.