I took some heat on this one

[banditbdl]

Playing 3/6 live last night. Typically nice Saturday night game, mix of calling stations and loose-aggressive types. There are 4 callers I complete for 2 dollars from the SB with A7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Big Blind checks and the flop comes K,Q,rag with 2 spades. I check and it gets checked around. Turn is another Q, no spade, and I check with it getting checked around again. River is a king, for a board of K, Q, Q, K, rag. I bet and chop the pot 3 ways with two other aces.

The rest of the table immediately came after me for not betting my flush draw from the start, as I likely would have taken the whole thing down rather than chopped. I thought my play was okay given that I was out of position and kings and queens are likely to be played and called all the way by these opponents, so there isn't much bluff value from my bet, if one of my opponents has a K or Q I'm gonna have to catch the ace or spade to win. I normally, bet a nut flush draw like this for value in a multi-way pot, but I guess I chickened out due to my crappy position. What do you guys think?

[rkiray]

I would either bet or check raise. If you don't play big draws aggresively on flop, you give away too much info when you do catch a big flop.

[chesspain]

How important is position in your case? You either get the spade or you don't /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[banditbdl]

I was actually looking to checkraise the flop, but then it got checked around. Should I have then bet the turn?

[LetsRock]

When I'm in a hand in EP (especially the blinds) and I flop a vulnerable hand or a flush draw, I tend to be very aggressive, especially with a board that looks good to "everybody".

Good players will recognize an "out of position" bet and give you credit for more than you have. There was no PF action so you shouldn't fear a set (yet). Basically, I'll fire until they fire back and then adjust to the conditions (ie call/fold).

vs. poor players? Well what can you really do about them, they either have cards or they don't and they'll either call or they won't.

Look at it this way: What hand would you put a SB on (with your table image) who bet out on this flop?

[Jezebel]

I guess I'll go against the grain and say that your check is not that bad of a play. There are times to be aggressive with a draw, but against four "calling stations and loose-aggressive types", on a coordinated board, this is not the perfect time. I would need a bigger draw or less people in the pot to start pounding this one. If 2 or more limped in on the flop behind you, then checkraising for value could have been a good play.

[Bob T.]

If everyone will call, you want to bet, because you have a value bet on the flop with your draw. If you were planning on checkraising, I don't like it, because you don't know where the bet was going to come from, and if it came from late position, you would be making it tough for the field to call, so you might not get enough callers to get value for your raise.

[Louie Landale]

Its OK to bet the flush draw and get called. In fact, this is a value bet not a bluff. The only real "disaster" to betting is if a LHO is going to raise and drive out the loose callers. Since you are in the blinds this means you need to know the calling patterns of the early callers. Check your hand if its tight whimp types who DON'T raise with big no-pair hands, and also don't call early with low cards.

Otherwise, generally bet.

- Louie

[Jezebel]

Bob,
I agree that if you knew that more than 2, or less than one /images/graemlins/smile.gif will call, then betting out is the preferable play. However, you can't be happy if you get raised since it is likely to suck the value out of your bet and cut down the multiway action you would prefer. Checking to see how the action develops is in my mind the best play. If more than 2 limp in you can raise for value. If it checks around it is not a disaster. If its bet, raised and reraised you can fold. A bet on the flop must have a good chance to take the pot in order for me to favor that play. With the table texture as described by the original poster, I would consider that outcome very unlikely.

[Nottom]

I may or may not have bet the flop. I would have bet the turn when it got checked through.

[rtucker5]

I would have bet out on the flop. I don't think checking is all that bad. I think the biggest mistake you made in the hand was the river bet. No hand that beats you will fold and you may have to pay off a river raise by someone who decided to slowplay a K or Q.

[Bob T.]

If its bet, raised and reraised you can fold.

You are going to fold the nut flush draw on the flop, on an unpaired board? Since at least three players are likely to be in, and almost certainly I have two opponents, I am fourbetting this one instead of folding.