1/2 NLHE 66 Hand.

[Acesover8s]

1-2 NLHE game. I ($260) limp behind 1 limper with black sixes. MP ($300) raises min. 2 more callers. Limper and I call.

Flop comes 569 with 2 diamonds. Limper bets $2. I call. MP makes it $5 to go. Limper calls and I make it $50 to go. MP calls.

Turn is the Jack of diamonds.

What's my play, and how bad did I do on the flop?

[dogsballs]

Did he check first on the turn? If so, check behind and call the river - unless you boat up.

[Paul2432]

To dogsballs: He is first to act. I agree with postition, that would be the way to play the hand.

To Acesover8s: I like your flop play, assuming you were confident your opponent would bet. Clearly, you are in a very tough spot. I think the clue to this hand is that your opponents betting makes no sense. If he has the straight, why not re-raise all-in, if he had a hand like AKd or a big pair, why not raise more initially and try to pick up the pot? Because his betting seems to indicate he does not know what he is doing, he could have a wide range of hands, many of which you beat. I think you should move in, to give any one card flush draw improper odds. If he has the flush or straight, you still have outs. He may very well fold 99 or the straight.

Paul

[Graham]

oops, thought it was the limper we were talking about. I should read things properly first..

Since, it's MP guy: He's playing like many online players do with a semi-big hand like a decent pair. Give him a good bet and hope he folds. He may have nothing much, plus you have a bunch of outs even if called. If raised - well, check out your pot odds.

dogs

[tpir90036]

i like the flop play a lot. leading into the raiser is better than trying to check-raise it since he might just check it through looking for a free ace if he had AK/AQ.

i think you have to lead the turn with a decent sized bet with the intention of laying it down if he goes all-in. i would only check against a weak timid player who would check it through on a draw and only make a huge bet in this spot with a big made hand.

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
i think you have to lead the turn with a decent sized bet with the intention of laying it down if he goes all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this strategy is stack sizes. On the turn the pot is about 120 and the players have about 200 left. Suppose Acesover8s bets 100 and the opponent moves in, then Acesover8s will be getting 4.2:1 odds on the call which is enough to draw to a full house. That is why I suggested moving all in.

Paul

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
oops, thought it was the limper we were talking about. I should read things properly first..

Since, it's MP guy: He's playing like many online players do with a semi-big hand like a decent pair. Give him a good bet and hope he folds. He may have nothing much, plus you have a bunch of outs even if called. If raised - well, check out your pot odds.

dogs

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suffering a bit of Schizophrenia these days, Graham/Dogsballs?

Either way, I'm surprised to hear you say you put him on a big pair. He just called a pretty decent checkraise there. If I had a big pair there and for some reason I thought it was still good I would move in on the pot.

My reasoning at the time was that either he has something like AJd, flopped the straight or has a set. Most likely the diamonds though. Is my reasoning flawed, I am the first to admit I play a poor game of NLHE. (Most of my opponents would be second.)

I agree with your play on the turn, although I bungled it in real play.

[Acesover8s]

When he called my big raise I put him on a strong hand or a draw. Either something like AJd, a set (probably nines), or the made straight.

The diamond hit the turn and my weary mind (this happened at 5am) tried to think through the possibilities. It seemed to me the obvious solution would be to bet an amount that didn't look scared but was still small enough that I could fold if he raised me.

As one of the posters mentioned the stack sizes make this almost impossible.

So, stupidly, I checked. He bet out $100 straight. I thought about checkraising all in, I thought about kicking my cat, I thought about folding, and I did. He then typed "nut straight vs. nut flush". I feel good about my fold but bad about my play.

What do people think about checkraising all in on the flop?

[dogsballs]

I do that all the time. I may not have the schizophrenia licked but I've kept the paranoia under wraps so far... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I looked back at your original post and I agree - AdJd or 99 would seem more likely than a big pair, esp given the min raise preflop.
Don't take my word seriously on anything to do with HE, that's for sure...Game selection usually involves sitting down with me.

[illmatic]

One of those two guys has the flush by the turn.

Some people are suggesting to move in on the flop. That's crazy to me. You are only going to get called by the made straight, and then you're a big underdog. So you risk your $200 stack to win what $10 or whatever is in the pot?? No way. Maybe the flush draw calls you but I don't see it at these levels. I like your move here.

On fourth, you have to bet here. In this situations, what I usually do is take advantage of people's laziness. You know he has the flush but you want to draw to your boat cheap. Most people hit that raise button, they're too lazy to move the slider to all-in or to a different bet size. So you bet $20 or $25 into this pot and let him click "raise" and make it $40 or $50. If he does move in or raises you more, you let it go and feel happy knowing he had you beat. Otherwise, you call that extra $20 or $25 for your boat. On the river if you catch you bet the pot (he may fold to all-in), if you miss, you check and fold.

later,
illmatic

[tpir90036]

good point. i screwed up my pot math at some point. anyway, i think the main point is to not check becasue you won't know where you are at and will not have the odds to fill up at that point.