tricky play or what?

[Sehr Gut]

15-30 at party. 10 handed.
I got Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the SB. Unknown player in EP limps, bad player in MP limp and a tight aggressive player in LP limps too. I complete.
FLop comes Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I check, EP check, MP bet, LP raises, I checkreraise, EP calls!, MP folds and LP calls.
Three to the turn wich brings 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif
I bet, EP calls, LP raises, I fold and EP calls.
River is another Queen and EP checkfolds.

What do you think of my play? My thought was that LP would raise in this spot preflop with hands like KQ and AQ. I read his raise for something like A4s or A2s with a possible backdoorflushdraw. Maybe a hand like 77 or 66 as well. If he got a queen i think my kicker is at least as good as his. When he raised the turn i wondered if he would do it with a queen bad kicker as a freeshowdownplay or if he instead had a small set of either 2s or 4s.
I read him for a set and folded. The question in that case would be if he would have raised the flop with a set? I have thought about it and i think that is a good play since noone will put you on a set if you do it and a slow play will get people to be more suspicious when the raise comes on the turn.
I dont know, maybe this was a very bad laydown. Just let me know.
Sehr Gut

[ZeeJustin]

IMO the pot is too big to lay this down on the turn. I would have considered laying it down on the flop, mostly because you are out of position.

[nykenny]

it feels like a good laydown, simply because he raised 2 of you and i feel he wanted you to call rather than fold. yes, the possibility of raising for a free showdown bothers me too. but you say he is tight aggressive, so he really shouldn't have KQ or AQ there... i am not sure how behind you are though.

well my thought process is usually like this:
1)what's my Adjusted Minimum Representation - AMR(tm) - so far?
2)does he want me to call? can he have a big hand?
3)is he likely to over play in this situation?

and my answer would be:
1) i have represented a BIG Q minimally
2) it feels like he want me to call on turn and river
3) he could have a set, Q8s if not AQ, KQ.

so calling while crying is too painful here and the fold should be good most of the time.

Kenny

[Sehr Gut]

Hello Zee!
Do you really lay down a hand when you think your hand is best just because of position?

[Sehr Gut]

Thank you for your answer kenny.
Do you think my checkreraise was way off?

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really lay down a hand when you think your hand is best just because of position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not very often, but in this case, yes. The problem is if you do in fact have the best hand, you will extract the minimum after the flop. If you don't, you are likely to lose a lot more than the minimum. You are also susceptible to 2 overcards, as well as another Q with a higher kicker.

What do you do if they call you on the flop and raise you on the turn if a rag flops? Do you fold? Do you call?

What do you do if an overcard flops. Do you bet? Do you Check fold.

Both of these situations seem pretty bad no matter what you do.

[Sehr Gut]

I was just about to say that you were wrong about that i would loose more if i lost the most than i would win if i won the less. I was wrong. But it was close.
If i win the absolute less everyone will fold to my checkreraise wich would mean i win 4 big bets right there.
If i loose the most i loose 4,5 big bets.

I must say though that i dont think there is a chance i will win this pot right there when i threebet. If i would win the pot i think the LP would call my bet and then call och or fold the turn or river.
But i see your point and i must say i have to agree. Its not worth it.

Sehr Gut

[WyattErb]

i would have folded after the bettor gets raised. but u make a 3 bet...ur kicker isnt that good. and what if somebody got 2pairs Q's up already? i would definitely have folded!

[Paluka]

Folding for one bet on the turn here is a miserable play.

[NLfool]

I maybe a minority here but I think this a good fold. You said a tight aggressive player raised the turn in a Q428 board. lots of tight aggr will limp with 22 or 44 and I don't believe someone is putting a play on you another caller there, we can rule out any two pair as no tight player will play those combinations . slight chance you maybe in for a split pot but I think you saved money here. Well this is party so nothing really makes sense there

[Sehr Gut]

I think the chance that im up againt two pair on the flop is very small. There is no chance the tight aggressive player have Q4, Q2.

[Sehr Gut]

WHat do you think is the play in this hand then Pauluka?
Play as i did but call it down, or just fold on the flop? What is your read of the tight aggressive player?