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View Full Version : Krieger at Poker Pages this issue says...


Rushmore
11-18-2003, 06:01 PM
...that at the final table of a limit holdem tourney, 5-handed, second-biggest stacked, a player should not be playing AQ suited UTG.

http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/krieger42.htm

Am I wrong in thinking this is incorrect? In this position, 5-handed, it certainly looks like a raise to me.

DougBrennan
11-18-2003, 06:14 PM
My reading of the article was that he was recommending against continuing to play the AQ after the flop had missed and the opponent had bet. I saw no actual or implied criticism of the pre-flop raise.

I agree with you that I'd raise AQs pre-flop on a 5 person table, pretty much 100% of the time.

Rushmore
11-18-2003, 06:24 PM
Strange.

My reading was the opposite--that he should not even play the hand preflop, but that he SHOULD play on after this flop (which the writer had not done).

Nottom
11-18-2003, 08:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
...that at the final table of a limit holdem tourney, 5-handed, second-biggest stacked, a player should not be playing AQ suited UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he says you shouldn't call the flop bet.

DougBrennan
11-18-2003, 08:13 PM
I just went back and re-read the piece a couple more times, and you may be right.

The best I can say is Kreiger's point unclear, and it gets murkier with each re-read. My conclusion is ??????????????????.

But then, I play no-limit tournaments, not limit, and I'm playing AQs five-handed--and hoping to acquire the strength to lay it down when I miss the flop and am bet into /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Nottom
11-18-2003, 08:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
But then, I play no-limit tournaments, not limit, and I'm playing AQs five-handed--and hoping to acquire the strength to lay it down when I miss the flop and am bet into

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still trying to figure out how the nut flush draw + overcards is considered "missing" the flop

DougBrennan
11-18-2003, 08:55 PM
Well I think I've humiliated myself enough for now.

I suppose I was responding to the fact that the hand eventually lost.

And one of my leaks is hanging on to an unimproved hand too long, though that was not quite what was going on in the article's example.

Easy E
11-19-2003, 01:53 PM
I think that he needed to do a little editing for clarity, since he recommended different courses of action at different points in the hand, based on what was or was not done.

I'm pretty sure that Lou never questions the pre-flop play of the hand, other than possibly questioning the raise. His comment The key issue here is that you did not need to play this hand in the first place, and could have released it with a minimal loss in chips once your opponent bet the flop. is pretty much limited to the post-flop play, as in "don't play this post-flop against the chip leader".
I don't necessarily AGREE with that, mind you, but Lou does have a point to consider about the type of hands that you want to take up against the big stack, as second stack, when there are plenty of smaller stacks that make for better playing opportunities with A-Big suited.

Whether anyone can make the point for not playing AQs in the first place, if you assume that a raise in a limit tournament will limit your foe to the big stack, is a question, but I think there might be a small chance that you could successfully make that point. I'm not the player to do that, however.