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View Full Version : Meeting of the minds....


Mike Gallo
11-17-2003, 08:25 PM
For about the past month a few of the posters have gotten together for a "training? session. I started the inaugural session however the last few poster Gonores has started.

I have read from several posters that they gained nothing from these sessions.

I wanted to start the training sessions so I can "practice" playing against solid players at .50-1.00.
It will cost less than playing against the same players in their natural habitat of 10-20 and above.

I invite anyone intersted to attend however, watch the game before you join. You will see plays that might look completely bizarre, that actually make sense. That does not mean capping with A 3 offsuit in a multi way pot.

I advise all to get the hand histories and post hands that stump you.

Gonores, you have done a fine job of starting the table, so I will bestow the honor to you from this day forward.

lil'
11-17-2003, 08:50 PM
There is much to learn if people take the time to post the hands here afterward. If you just go to the table to make small talk, that's pretty much all you'll get from it.

Aside from BigEndian, I think myself and one other person posted a hand from the last game. I was only there for a 20 minutes, but I saw several errors, especially around attacking and defending blinds.

It's very hard to chat during the session, because the chat box is too small.

Sven
11-17-2003, 09:06 PM
When are you guys playing? I will be funding my party account on Tuesday I might be up for some of this /images/graemlins/smile.gif I would like more info about this for sure /images/graemlins/smile.gif Mike

gonores
11-17-2003, 09:09 PM
Thanks MG

A few specifics:

I try to start the table on Tuesdays around 6:30pm EST, on Party Poker (depending on how detained I am at my class, it may start a few minutes late). If demand dictates, we will start a second table.

Table Name: Dougiefresh1's Private Table
Password: twoplustwo
Stakes: $.5/$1

These hold constant each week.

There is no shame in just sitting down with a few bucks or playing for a just few hands if a big loss from the 2+2 table would damage your bankroll. Railbirds are welcome too.

If you can hold your own at this table for a good length of time, you have my personal endorsement to play $3/$6, assuming a proper bankroll.

In which forum should we post our hands? I'm sort of worried about misleading impressionable newbies.

Mike Gallo
11-17-2003, 09:29 PM
In which forum should we post our hands? I'm sort of worried about misleading impressionable newbies.

Ask Mason if we can start a new forum called the Danger Room.

Seriously I think we should continue posting in the small stakes section.

Title the posts.from the Two Plus Two table.

Mike Gallo
11-17-2003, 09:30 PM
Will Magic posters a hand he played againt me. I posted a hand I believe.

If you see an error, you can feel free to post the hand.

Everyone will benefit if you utilize everyones opinions.

lil'
11-17-2003, 09:47 PM
Yeah, yours and Will Magic's hands were the other hand I remember reading about. But there were lots of people there. It was disappointing to see so few posts the next day!

I won't post other people's errors, though. That's not cool.

jbc
11-17-2003, 09:52 PM
I will see you guys there tomorrow schedule permitting. Make sure you bring some extra money /images/graemlins/wink.gif (to lend me when I bust out)

jbc

gonores
11-17-2003, 10:03 PM
Please post my errors...seriously.

I have no feelings, and would rather not be ignorant of my poor play. I'm here to learn, not to have my ego stroked.

Since my hiatus, I feel so completely inept at this game that I don't even know where to start any more. I'm trying to limp my way through to the end of the semester when I will have more time to read, play, think etc.

lil'
11-17-2003, 10:06 PM
Maybe we could make an agreement. Something like, "if you play at the 2+2 table, we reserve the right to post your hand and all comments that took place therein."

Then nobody is safe!

Alobar
11-18-2003, 12:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe we could make an agreement. Something like, "if you play at the 2+2 table, we reserve the right to post your hand and all comments that took place therein."

Then nobody is safe!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats a great idea. I would love to sit at a table with other people who are serious about trying to improve thier game. And how else are you going to improve your game if you dont learn from your mistakes. Or the mistakes of other like minded individuals. I think you should check your ego at the door if you wanna sit down.

rkiray
11-18-2003, 01:36 AM
Even I agree that those posts would be better in the SS. It's kind of a weird case. (Note : I don't have a Party account so this doesn't affect me personally).

Nottom
11-18-2003, 01:44 AM
I think that should be fine. If someone wants to post a hand that someone else made a mistake in, they don't have to use names.

Hopefully I will be making a Party deposit soon, and will be able to participate in the 2+2 game.

Festus22
11-18-2003, 08:47 AM
In theory, this is a great idea. But to be totally honest, this game is the exact antithesis of Party $0.5/1. It is tight/aggressive and usually tricky to the extreme. From what I've observed, I'd say it rivals $15/30 or even higher. For me, the only thing I really got out of it was playing heads up post flop since that's usually the case. Again, that's so different from the usual micro game that I stopped playing.

Sorry I don't have an answer on what could be done to make it more "micro-realistic". Does anyone else who has played this table feel this way?

Mike Gallo
11-18-2003, 08:55 AM
It is tight/aggressive and usually tricky to the extreme. From what I've observed, I'd say it rivals $15/30 or even higher.

Thats good. I can practice playing 15-30 for .50-1.00.

Festus22
11-18-2003, 09:11 AM
It's good for you since you play those levels. It's not so good for those of us that don't and probably ever won't. I'm glad you found a training game that simulates the real thing for a fraction of the price.

Maybe we could also have a table for the players who only play micro limits. That may be more realistic for us.

gonores
11-18-2003, 09:20 AM
It won't be realistic for you. The difference of quality of play between 2+2ers who play micro and 2+2ers who play small stakes is very small, IMO. You're still going to see a bunch of heads-up pots and aggression.

The best way to simulate a micro-limit game for micro-limit stakes is to play at a regular micro-limit table. Then post hands.

Doug

Gomez22
11-18-2003, 09:22 AM
I think that would be a good idea... actually, that's a great idea...... Maybe I'll post something about that and see what kind of reaction it gets.

Gomez22
11-18-2003, 09:26 AM
I think the "thing" here, Doug, is that I've played teh 2+2 table also, and it is very tricky and cut-throat.... more bluffing than usualy, IMO.... that may have changed, because I haven't been able to play it for a while, but I really think that the 2+2 table gets more into HU play post flop, and alot more trickery than we normally see at micro/small limits/stakes. I'm not say that there's anything wrong with that, but I know that alot of things we can learn at the normal 2+2 table are in no way applicable to a typical small/micro table.

Just my 2 cents......

'Mez

Mike Gallo
11-18-2003, 09:32 AM
Gomez,

What poker game does not have a "cut throat" dynamic with a lot of bluffing.

This will enable a player to snap bluffs, or to bluff optimally.

I'm not say that there's anything wrong with that, but I know that alot of things we can learn at the normal 2+2 table are in no way applicable to a typical small/micro table.

I did not start these session to beat a micro limit game. I think just playing an ABC style of poker will enable a player to beat the micro limit games.

I started the training sessions to play a higher level of poker, not to improve on micro limit play.

Gonores gave the best advice for getting better at micro limits. Play them and post hands.

Ok, see everyone tonight.

Gomez22
11-18-2003, 09:43 AM
NO offense, MG, but I think it could be a good idea........ if nothing else, it might give some who can't make the Tuesday night games another option for playing.

I'm seeing both sides of the coin here, though, and agree on the importance of the standard 2+2 table, don't get me wrong..... however, this could be another avenue for those that are either skeptical about playing the standard table, and a way for those just starting the game who belong to this forum an easier way to get their feet wet, so to speak.....

It's just an idea..... that's all

gonores
11-18-2003, 10:19 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, Gomez, but here's the way I see things occurring. You classify the current 2+2 table as tight-aggressive. Your proposed table, if things go your way, will be tight-passive.

Here's the problem I see with that. Eventually, if you put ten good, thinking players at a table and everyone is folding to the BB, someone will get wise and start taking advantage of the table's tightness, and will get away with it if the table is expected to be passive. Your game is going to naturally evolve into the aggressive game we play, simply because that is the optimal way to play a table with ten tight players.

What do you expect to gain from a tight-passive table if you intend on staying in the microlimits for a while?

Doug

Alobar
11-18-2003, 04:19 PM
We could go to the local grade school and hire 9 kids to sit at the table and randomly push raise/call, then we could each take a turn sitting at the table with them and see how we do. Then post hands for analysis...sound good to everyone? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

NoChance
11-18-2003, 04:35 PM
Gomez, I think your idea is awesome. However, I think gonores is correct. There is no way to create the same "low limit Party game" with ten 2+2ers sitting at the table. I think he is correct in saying that most 2+2ers are tighter than the average player and thus the game will naturally migrate to the type of tight/aggressive game already being played on the current Tuesday night private table.

Now, just because the table is full of 2+2ers, does not mean there wont be mistakes. There will be plenty of mistakes, just not as many as you will get in a regular Party game. There is still plenty to learn from each other.

I also agree with some of the other comments here. The best way to learn is to play the hands, post a few of them here, and for God's sake PARTICIPATE in the discussion. Nobody here will slam you for making an incorrect statement. That isn't what this is all about.