Did my tricky play accomplish anything?

[elindauer]

on-line 15/30

EP (loose, aggressive PF) limps
MP (tight, aggressive) raises
I (you tell me) 3-bet with A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif
button (no read) caps it
blinds fold, all call

Flop. 4 players. 17.5 SB:

7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Booya! I'd be perfectly happy to cap it 4-ways and move on. I start thinking about how to get as many people to see the turn for as many bets as possible.

EP checks (and folds next)
MP bets
I call
button (PF 4-bet) raises
MP 3-bets
I call
button calls

I'm wondering how the 2+2ers would have liked my flop play when the turn brings the glorious:

J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I start wondering again how to get as many people to see the river for as many bets as possible.

MP bets
I call
LP calls

I can hear the board screaming at me. Or at least, vigorously typing at me. The river:

J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

MP bets
I raise
LP thinks and thinks and calls 2 cold
MP calls


Fire away.

[rigoletto]

Perfect!

[Ed Miller]

I start thinking about how to get as many people to see the turn for as many bets as possible.

When the pot is 4-bet preflop, even with a monster draw like yours, I am always looking to knock people out, not keep them in. I think you have your priorities wrong.

[elindauer]

Hi majorkong,

[ QUOTE ]
I am always looking to knock people out, not keep them in. I think you have your priorities wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a fair criticism. Normally I have the same motivation to win the pot as quickly as possible. On this particular flop, in the few seconds I had to think about it, I decided a few things:

1. There's probably a pocket pair out against me, maybe more than one.

2. No way can I win this hand without showing down a winner.

from this I quickly concluded

3. I need to improve to win.


Now I noticed that it was going to be very hard / impossible to get a hand to fold that would still beat me if I improved on the turn, so instead I decided to try to keep the hands around that will just be paying me off if I did improve.

But the pot is big, and you don't want to take chances with it... I wouldn't fault anyone for ramming and jamming this flop, with no regard for maximizing the pot. HEFAP says as much, and those guys seem to have won some money in this game...

In fact, I didn't consider that I might lose by failing to knock out a hand, and having that hand -and- my hand improve (think AQ with offsuit A and Q hitting). It's very possible that raising is the best move by far. Well, that's why I'm posting this hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Thanks for the advice,
Eric

[DocHollyday]

I like how you played the flop, but the turn is a definite raise for me. You've got the nuts and every card that comes on the river can only make your hand worse.

Additionally the LP four-bet preflop and raised the flop. It's likely that he also will call your raise on the turn.

I think you lost a couple of bets with this hand.

[johnd]

I would have capped by the time it got to 3 bets on the flop with nut flush and over cards with tha many people in its a value raise. I would raise the turn to charge a heavy price to any one with a set drawing to a house. a typical player will call your raise on the turn with big pockets , and the LAPs might even with as little as middle pockets dreaming if they hit their set it will still be good. LAPs also might still stay in becase they picked up a flush draw when the Jh hit. Any one holding QQ with one of them hearts would help u cap it on the turn thinking the heart is no an extra out and hes got over pair. Just my thoughts

[elindauer]

Thanks for the interesting replies. I've heard everything from "perfect" to "you lost several bets", and I still haven't made up my own mind about the best play.

Some thoughts: I decided not to cap the flop, even though I wanted to, because I felt that I wouldn't be making that much on the value bet (I felt KK and AA were very real possibilities), and that the call-cap would really clarify my hand for my opponents, helping them make the right decision if I did in fact improve.


Anyways, no surprise, my hand was good. EP had QQ with no heart, LP had KK (of course, no heart). I currently slightly prefer calling the turn, because it increases my chances of catching both players with a raise on the river, and the slowplay cannot cost me the pot. Note that my best chance for getting in big money on the turn comes from QQ with a heart, but I suspect most players would be cautious with this third best pair, third best flush draw. If I come alive on the turn, QQ with a heart has to consider that he may be drawing dead (I did 3-bet PF).

Thanks for all the advice.

Eric