good raise?

[WyattErb]

am at the local casino, 8players, 30/60 limit, stud...lots of calling stations...
i didnt have any good cards for a long time...after a while i had a 56o in the pocket and a 7 up! i decided to stay in the game, since none of the cards i needed for a straight were out yet! (no 3, 4, 8, 9!!!)
bring in is 10, 5 players see the next card, i get an 8!! others get some high cards, the guy who had to make the bring-in gets a 6 and bets 30, i call, so do all the others. bring-in gets another 4(so there is a pair of fours showing), i get the 9 for a straight! he bets 60, i raise to 120 everybody folds, bring-in calls! next card of course he gets an other 6, bets, i call, last card, he bets, i call, hes got a full!
was it a good play to raise him? or should i have slowplayed my hand? if i dont raise him, he wont get another six...but, how could i have known that???
all responds are welcome!!!

[banditbdl]

Under no circumstances should you be playing 5,6,7 offsuit, even if you're bored. Other than that, your fifth street raise was fine, but I would have folded once your opponent made two pair showing on sixth street. Your opponent bet with 4,6 showing on third street. He's either on a straight draw (which is unlikely since you hold both a 5 and a 7) or more likely he has a pair of either 4s or 6s. Then he pairs his doorcard and bets again, right there you have to put him on 2 pair or 3 4s. When he catches the 6 on sixth street he's filled up either way, you can't win, easy fold.

[WyattErb]

u know...i actually knew he had the full house, i dont know why i didnt fold my straight...maybe it was the hope that he had AA or KK in the pocket!!

[crockpot]

i would virtually never play 567 unsuited. the problem is that you need multiway action to get odds, but you will make a second best hand often in a multiway pot.

good raise on fifth street. as i said above, yours is not the kind of hand that welcomes opponents to draw out against it. when your opponent makes two open pair, you should fold rather than call two big bets. your opponent bet on fourth and fifth street, so he is a big favorite to turn over the full house. also, there's a good chance he wouldn't have bet if he wasn't full, you having just raised him while clearly representing a straight.

[aamitch10]

As a semi-knew stud player I am going to have to disagree with a few of you on this issue. I would absolutely play this hand in a 5 way pot with all cards live. It is precisely what you want to play in a multi-way environment. You say the bring in paired his four, so when you say all cards were completely live, it isn't the total truth. One four was gone at the bring in. However if only one four were dead, i would still be more than glad to play this in a 5 way pot. Now when the 4 pairs his door card you have just made your pat hand. WHy woudn't you raise? How often do you assume a guy has filled up in the first 5 cards? What is the most likely hand that 464 is holding? From his play, if he is one of the week players you are talking about, I first put him on a big pair in the hole because he bet out when just showing 46. Then I think three fours. I think it is an automatic bet by the 464 board and an automatic raise by the completed straight. With $280 in the pot when it is up to you to act, I think a raise is in order to play the 464 heads up. You don't want anyone drawing to a better hand (playing him based on the two most possible hands he is holding). Even if he has three fours, I don't believe he is at odds to fill up with two cards coming. That being said, when the guy makes two pair in the air and bets into the obvious straight, and he is a weak player, you then know he has filled up and get off the hand.

Just my two cents

[Andy B]

You are correct that drawing hands usually want multi-way action. The problem is that when you have enough opponents to make it "worth" drawing to your straight, it becomes significantly less likely that a small straight will hold up. Also, you don't have the extra outs that a big straight or flush draw does. You can't expect to win a multi-way pot by pairing Sevens, or even making two pair. If you have KQJ in a heads-up pot, you can easily win by hitting a pair.

I usually play 765 but not 654. Having a 4 out is probably enough to turn 765 into a muck. Most players lose money on straight draws. Judging by the kinds of questions Wyatt is asking, I am fairly confident that he would be better off avoiding them too. I consider myself to be a reasonably accomplished stud player, and I don't make much on straight draws myself. I make money on flush draws, big pairs, and roll-ups.

When the guy bets out with 46 showing, I agree that it's more likely that he has a pair in the hole (not necessarily a big one) than that he has a pair of Fours (or Sixes). I therefore don't fear the paired door card as much as I usually would. The poster should raise when he hits his straight, and I think he pays off even against the two open pair. If he "knows" the other guy is full, he should fold, but I think I pay it off.