To my Gun Toting friends

[ACPlayer]

IN a previous thread I posted some facts (which y'all disputed or ignored to varying extents) and some measures that could be put in place to reduce some of the costs of gun ownership. I now invite the following:

Please provide some FACTs on how often a private citizen used a gun in self defense. Not statistics on crime rates as these can clearly be influenced by other variables (such as prosperity etc).

Please also provide any of the federal/state laws that are apresently on the books that should be cancelled and why ().

Please also provide any instances where you personally pulled out a gun while being threatened by another person carrying a gun and what the outcome of this was.

As I personally have never been in a situation where even the need for calling a cop has been an issue, I would better like to understand where this paranoia about defending oneself comes from.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Arlington, Mass., within the last 18 months.

A lesbian couple had been repeatedly harassed and subjected to the threat of gay-bashing by a specific neighborhood thug. The local police were no help in stopping the harassment. One evening, one of the couple was returning home, when said thug was lying in wait. He jumped her on her porch and began to beat her. She got her key in the lock and was able to open her front door, reached in to the table in the foyer, picked up her gun and shot the thug in the face.

I posted this off the top of my head from memory. It was reported in the Boston Globe.

For the record, I am a supporter of gun rights who believes that the government has precisely zero right to deny me the means to defend my life, family and property. I do not now own a firearm, and have never owned one. I make no warrants, however, for the future.

[ACPlayer]

I am looking for a personal experience, not a news story. I have seen those.

[brad]

'a gun while being threatened by another person carrying a gun '

what u dont think a guy with a tire iron cant kill you?

[ACPlayer]

Hey, I asked a question. Have an answer? Let me hear it.

Want to offer a non-answer, I will hear that too.

You guys apparently move around in a different country than do I, am interested in experiences.

[brad]

my uncle was a construction electrical contractor and sometimes had to wear a sidearm depending on where he worked.(not very often)

one time he saw someone (a real bad area) steal some stuff and he went over to the apartment (across the street from work zone, where guy ran off to or went or something) and got it back. (he knocked on door and said, hey i know you got it, just give it back and no trouble)

btw, do u think only 'common' citizens should be gunless, that bigshots should have thier bodyguards and stuff?


on a related note (ok im giving you points here) my brother had a guy come to f him up (but my brother is tough pro0bablyh could have taken him) after my brother shagged his gf or something.

anyway, guy knocks on my brothers door (maybe pounded and said come out and get your a kicked or someting) and my brother opens it with 9mm pointed at guys head.

so you know you haved a point, but just cause my brother is crazy and might end up in jail doesnt mean my uncle shouldve had to let his job site be plundered. (and maybe asssaulted by gang of thugs)

[brad]

also remember the other night i posted i was stalking around my gf's house with a hatchet (from firewood) cause an intruder was in house (im prettyh sure since the back garage door (person door) was left wide open) well not house but garage.

it was around 430 am i guess.

if i had a firearm i couldve just sat in living room in front of fire in after sex glow and waited until dawn or even later and maybe even called police. (ie, once it got light out and i could be fairly certain intruder had left and also that cops wouoldnt kill me by mistake)

but since i didnt i felt i had to engage right away (since if he/they were aggressive and would come after us for some reason (maybe he was a real axe murderer heh) then being passive was a big mistake), and also because if gf heard a struggle she could call 911.

--------
talking to yhour assault weapons thing (assuming yhou maean m16 or ak) , what about korean shopkeepers in LA riots who defendede their stores with said weapons and *were not* looted.

should they not be able to defend their property and maybe thier lives (ie, what if they couldnt get out of area)

[HDPM]

Facts: I have read varying accounts. But guns are used many times per year in self defense. Also remember police are citizens, not military. I believe all justified police uses of firearms are those of private citizens. Most people don't think so tho. But just non-police private citizens use guns as many as 500,000x per year. This does not mean they shoot the gun, but many times guns are produced or brandished which changes the interpersonal dynamics of a situation.;-) I have read many anecdotes of self defense, but won't post them here, just point out there are many.

Federal/state laws which should be cancelled. NFA. GC Act of '68 and all amendments. All Brady bill stuff. All state laws prohibiting concealed carry. All laws requiring a permit for concealed carry. IOW, I believe a law abiding citizen who does not intend to commit a crime should be able to carry his personal property as he chooses, concealed or unconcealed, in all 50 states and localities therein, without a permit. We should have 50 Vermonts in my ideal world. I hope we at least get nationwide concealed carry, but don't think the feds should be issuing permits. The increased reciprocity is nice, but doesn't go far enough. I think citizens should be able to buy regular capacity magazines. I think citizens should be able to have what some people call "assault weapons." There is no chance we will go away from the major provisions of the GC Act of '68 tho, and I doubt we will be restored our right to own automatic weapons without oppressive taxation and restrictions on privacy. See, I have a modest proposal for reforming the laws. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Personal situations: I am familiar w/ some for people I know or from professional dealings. I won't list those. I have never had to display or use a weapon fortunately. And I don't expect I will ever have to. I did have to confront an intruder to my apartment. I kept the weapon hidden from him, and he went away. I told him very forcefully and repeatedly to get out and he decided to behave as a civilized person. I did not have to display the weapon. I was in the middle of, er, something, and the woman in the apartment with me went from an anti-gunner to someone who accepted the presence of guns in the house. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Kind of ruined the mood tho.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
Please also provide any of the federal/state laws that are apresently on the books that should be cancelled and why ().

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have a lot of time so I'll do this one first then tackle the rest later.

In the ultimate dream come true world, using the same parameters to which you responded - I would say this.

Any gun law (or any law for that latter) that goes against the fundamental presumption of innocence on the part of the individual should be off the books.

In other words - hi capacity magazines are bad because you might hurt someone. - Gone (presumes intent without fact)

Waiting periods - you might be a hot head and be out to hurt someone. - Gone (presumes intent without fact)

In other words - all of them! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Innocent until proven guilty should be more than a catch phrase.

[Baltimore Ron]

AC,

"Please also provide any instances where you personally pulled out a gun while being threatened by another person carrying a gun and what the outcome of this was."

Nope. Never happened. But I can assure you that I would much rather be packing than face an evil intented gun-toter with nothing more than a cell phone with which to hurriedly dial 911.

"As I personally have never been in a situation where even the need for calling a cop has been an issue, I would better like to understand where this paranoia about defending oneself comes from."

Neither have I ever died, but I do have life insurance.

Never been disabled, but carry that insurance too.

House fire? Flood? Earthquake? Nope. Insured? Yep.

Damn! Just think of all the money I've wasted due to my paranoia.

BR

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I would better like to understand where this paranoia about defending oneself comes from.

Concern about self-defense is not paranoia. *I* do not own a firearm because *I* don't feel I need one. If you don't feel you need one, don't buy one.

Neither you nor I can make that judgment for any other individual.

[Zeno]

I have never been in a personal confrontation involving guns and do not want to be.

[ QUOTE ]
I would better like to understand where this paranoia about defending oneself comes from.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is an extremely loaded statement. It is my opinion that you are the one that is paranoid. Hence, all your blather about regulations, laws, permits, “ privileges" (a misnomer for shackling inherent freedoms), waiting periods, etc.

You need to calm down.

-Zeno