2 Hands for review

[Gomez22]

Both hands are Stars .25/.50 tables(trying to increase my BR there)..... couple CS's, couple LAGs, pretty typical micro-limit, overall.

HAND #1
I'm in CO with: A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, folded to me, I call, button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

FLOP(14 SB): K /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, I call, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

TURN(9.5 BB): 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, I call, SB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

RIVER(13.5 BB): 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, I call(what a dumbass), UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

OK....... First off, I feel that the flop was either a raise/fold situation; am I correct in thinking this? Don't ask why I just called...... I can't explain...... dumbass attack, I guess. Second, If I don't improve on the turn in a hand with MPTK against a PF raiser, is it time to abandon the hand? I Figured I had pot odds here to try for the draws I had, at least to the turn, and after missing the river, I guess I shoulda folded there, right?


HAND #2

CO is a poster here.......
I'm in CO+1 with: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Folded around to me, and I raise, CO folds, button folds, SB folds, BB calls(been playing VERY loose lately). HU to the flop:

FLOP(5 SB): 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB bets, I raise, BB calls. This tells me if he has anything, it's a 10, right?

TURN(4.5 BB): A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, I check.....

RIVER(4.5 BB): Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, I bet, BB calls.....

Thought on my play here?

Results to follow............

[Saborion]

First of all, with my posts I`m just trying a discussion, since I`m no way near good enough to point out the possible errors you may have done.

Hand 1:
Is it really a good move to call with AJo when there`s been such an early raise? Especially with those callers between? Or maybe that`s what makes it worth it, although I cannot really see how. If you hit your J, you still have to worry about overcards. If you hit your A, you could be up against a worse kicker.

But I think calling from the flop and beyond when someone that cold called the EP raise is betting out is a bad choice. Even if you hit another or an A, you could be up against QT? And I doubt a raise would be good since it`s only middle pair?

What could UTG+1 have that makes him check-call all the way to the river, and then fold?
--------------------------------------------------------

Hand 2:
I think I would`ve bet the turn. BB didn`t 3-bet on the flop, and checked the turn. So if he has a 9 you`re likely to find out pretty soon. If he has a T he may fold it since he knew you raised pre-flop, on the flop and now bets when the A came. On the other hand, maybe it better to check since you have outs here?

[Gomez22]

HAND #1
I'll usually call 2 from LP with AJo, so long as there are other callers to give me better odds, if not, then I'll fold it, as long as I respected the raiser. Also, there were no raises after the flop on this hand, so I had NO idea where I stood..... most likely very dominated, but I had only been at this table for a short while and I knew a couple of the callers would call 3 cold with J6o...... no kidding! That's why I say that I shoulda raised or folded the flop... Coulda saved myself 1.5 BB maybe, and possibly could have gotten a free card, at least..... anyone staying in here likely HAS to have either a good draw or a king..... making my turn play much easier.... If I hit a J or A or a card to give me a straight draw, then maybe stay depending on action.

HAND #2
The reason I checked behind on the turn was because I no longer had overcards to the board, and was thinking I was probably behind to a 10 here..... IMO, I needed the free card... .should BB have bet out on the turn, I probably woulda folded.

[Saborion]

Calling with AJo in LP with callers in between, as you said, might be correct. I don`t know, but I`d say it`s mostly about your post flop skills. But with this flop I would`ve folded on the turn without improvment.

As far as hand 2 goes, I think that`s more about your read on the BB. If you don`t think he would lay down a T, or any hand for that matter, then you did the right thing. As I said, since you had outs, it might be best to check behind. Sklansky said that one should tend to check hands with outs on the turn, and bet the ones with no outs. Is this a good time to check that hand?

[MaxPower]

Hand 1

Pre-flop: You should fold here. When there is an EP raise, I don't believe in calling two bets cold with any unsuited cards except AK (with which I would 3-bet). Your hand will generally not win without improving and it will often lose when you do improve. You want to get in cheap with unsuited cards. Having cold-callers in front of you doesn't help much.

Post-flop - You do have outs, but they are not that clean. I don't know what effect a flop raise would have in a .25/.50 game. I think it is unlikely to fold out the players behind you, plus they might reraise. Your position is no good, there might be a raise behind you or a check-raise. I think folding on the flop would be good.

Hand 2

checking the turn is fine IMHO

[JTG51]

Hand 1:

Yuck. Get in the habit of folding AJo when there's been a raise and do it quickly. Cold calling with AJ is a recipe for disaster. Don't ever, never, ever do it. Not ever. Never.

Have I made myself clear? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hand 2:

Perfectly played. Just be careful about being so sure he has a T based on the flop play. That's his most likely hand, but don't rule out the other possibilities. He could still have a 9, or a pocket pair, or a draw.

[JTG51]

Sklansky said that one should tend to check hands with outs on the turn, and bet the ones with no outs. Is this a good time to check that hand?

You left out one important part of that idea. Sklansky is refering to hands that may be ahead, but if they aren't have outs. In this case, Gomez is likely behind on the turn so taking the free card is good (unless he thinks this opponent would fold a T which is unlikely).

[Gomez22]

HAND #1... OK.... I will never, ever, ever do it again... Not ever.... only never.....

HAND #2... 3 reasons I thought he had a 10, not the 9.....

1. He only called my flop raise......
2. He checked to me on the turn......
3. He checked to me again, and only called......

Basically, he showed NOTHING! If he DID have a 9, I woulda marked him for a weak-skirt-wearer.

I suppose he coulda had a gutshot or OESD, but I didn't think it likely.

[JTG51]

Like I said, I agree that a T is his most likely hand. A lot of players would play QJ or a medium pocket pair this way also, don't completely rule them out. A 9 looking to check raise the turn isn't impossible either, and that's another good reason for you check behind like you did.

I'm just saying that you should put your opponents on a range of likely hands and be ready for how they'd play each on the future streets, especially in these low limit online games where some of the play is so erratic.

[Gomez22]

I had a certain range, but after the hand, and while posting it here, I felt a 10 was about an 80% likeliness, here....

[rkiray]

Hand 1 :

I'm generally a big fan of either reraising or folding pf. With AJo I'd generally fold unless I was certain the raiser had very loose raising standards. I would have raised the flop to try to find out where I am. Since you didn't reraise I think it's unclear what to do the rest of the hand.

Hand 2 ;

Why did you raise the flop? The only reason I see is to buy a free card. BTW, I'm guessing you were in co -1. co +1 is commonly refered to as the button.

[Gomez22]

HAND #1

MP1 showed KQo to take it down.......

HAND#2

BB mucked, MHIG