Help with large ante game

[Acesover8s]

The game in question is $2-$4 Stud/8 played with a $1 ante. The players are mostly very bad, although a bit aggressive. I play well postflop, so I know I should loosen up my starting hand requirements, but how loose?

Are these hands playable?

(Ad4c)Td
(4sJc)4c
(2s5h)8d

etc. . .

[Andy B]

The first two are complete garbage. The second one is only playable if you are the only low. 7CS4AP talks a lot about the ante structure and the need for adjustments for higher/lower antes. HLSP4AP devotes very little space to this subject, and I think it's because you just don't need to adjust very much between a no-ante game and a high-ante game. The bottom line is that you're still going to have to show down the best hand. This kind of question seems to get asked a lot, and I think it's because people want to find excuses to play more hands.

[mr_jmac]

I don't think that's the reason they devoted very little space to it.

You are recommending that you don't need to adjust very much between a no-ante game and a high ante game ... this is crazy advice!

You need to adjust your play tremendously between a no-ante game and a high ante game. Now, in comparing a regular ante game and a high ante game you have to adjust a bit ... maybe that was what you were referring to.

I'm sure you can do the math to calculate how much extra money is in the pot compared to a normal game with say a $0.25 ante.

Look at it this way: say you make $4/hr in this game with regular game. Assume you play 15 hands per hour and win one hand an hour. You are paying $11.25 more an hour in antes. The one hand you do win ... you will win an extra $4 or $5 from the increased ante. Net reduction of about $6/hr.

You better start playing more hands or your win rate drops from 1 BB/hr to losing 0.5 BB/hr.

[Ray Zee]

partly true but it depends on how they play as well. if they go farther the pots you win are much larger so it may more than compensate. of if they tend to see one and drop then you will steal alot more often. it isnt a one line answer.
you will of course play more hands even if by accident as you will find many situations worth calling after alot of players or few have entered and you dont expect a rasie behind you.
in general in small ante games tight players win the majority of the money. in large ante games the tight good players win it all.

[crockpot]

i'd play only the third hand, and not if a decent player raised with a low card showing.

actually, what i would do is find another game where the ante won't ruin me.

[Andy B]

I don't know what the proper calculation is, and I don't really much care either, but I don't think your assumptions are valid. First, I think even the tightest players win more than one pot in fifteen. Second, because of the higher ante, you should win more in those pots. The very high ante does negatively affect your win rate, but I don't think it's going to turn a 1 BB/hr winner into a loser.

Perhaps I could have stated my position better. The large ante shouldn't affect your hand selection very much, especially if there is significant betting on the later streets. He should adjust how he plays his hands. He should be more aggressive, knocking players out in spots where he might otherwise have tried to keep them in, playing big hands faster, etc. There are adjustments to be made, I just don't think that the significant ones lie in the area of hand selection.

Do you think the poster should be playing J44, AT4, or 852? What additional hands should he be playing?

[Andy B]

The ante isn't going to ruin anybody. Everyone else is paying it, too. Stud/8 with loose, bad players? Let me in there!