Limit Omaha (high only) strategy advice needed

[bilyin]

I read Bob Ciaffone and I tried to wait for good cards and only draw to the nuts. It is not working. It appears the schooling effect is incredible. Guys are betting and calling with nothing. It is very expensive to draw. Made hands almost never stand up. I am at a loss on how to beat limit high Omaha.

[lefty rosen]

Try and call 4 cards that flow with nut straight and flush possibilities and bet the crap out of 16 outers and 13 outers and you will beat the game. Also if you have heat on a middling hand fold. This game if it's loose is like a midnight party .5/1 game so your swings can be enormous.

[Phat Mack]

This is a hard game to learn to beat because it redefines words like "tight" and "patience." A good way to practise is to throw away hands that aren't the nuts on 4th street with redraws to more nuts. After you get a feel for the table, you can keep monster draws, i.e. 17 outers to the nuts.

As Lefty says, the fluctuations in this game can be enormous. A good thing about Omaha high is that it will attract the gamblers who tire of playing rocks in hold 'em; but they make you pay to play, and they do draw out..

[Dentist]

Honestly.. Don't play

They don't call that game the "roulette wheel" of poker for nothing, at the "limit" level there's probably more luck involved in that game than in any other.

Think of it like your wild card games at home with your friends.

Learn how to play it pot-limit, hi-lo, or don't play it at all.

You'll pull your hair (or teeth) out trying to rationally play this game.

And yes, i've read Ciaffone as well.

[crockpot]

in terms of hourly rate, if you play perfectly, limit omaha high will get you the money against bad players faster than any other game, except maybe omaha/8. (however, there are more bad players in omaha high games.)

basically, you just have to be extremely patient and disciplined, because you will be waiting longer between winning hands and getting drawn out on more than in any other game. however, when you win a pot, it will be huge. (so it plays sort of like a loose-aggressive hold 'em game, in a way.) in other words, the game is pretty boring, so unless you play poker purely for profit, i wouldn't recommend it anyway.

[lefty rosen]

This game is still mostly a skill game it just gives a chaser the illusion of never having to fold until the river. Play Follow the Queen and that is mostly luck.

[PlayerA]

I think that in these loose games, it is correct is to play more hands pre-flop. Because of the schooling effect, you get monster odds to draw. The trick (and I think that another poster pointed this out) is that you don't hang around on the turn if you don't have a ton of outs.

[mosta]

I'll be in New Orleans again next week. Last time
I was there (which was the the first time I ever
looked for poker there), the big action in the
Harrah's poker room was a 15-30 O-Hi game. Anyone
know this game and have any advice for it? I have
little O-Hi experience (just the mixed 4-8 game
at Harrah's (and play money on Paradise)) (most
experience is 6-12 HE and 4-8 O-8, for 1 yr now),
and would appreciate any tips along the lines of
either: Be tight patient and solid and you have a fair
chance of grabbing some loose money (what it
looked like when I watched the game); or: It's a
lot more dangerous than it looks. (FWIW I clean up
on Paradise play money!)

[Lunamondo]

One thing I was surprised about omaha high (mainly pot-limit, but I am interested about limit also) when I started to play it every now and then was that it's hard to get the nuts or strong hands and when one does they don't rate to hold that well. So, it (limit form) should be looked more like a percentage game similar to blackjack - more exact multiway basic strategy of poker, and the "double down" possibility before the flop and after.

At limit form the pot odds are there to draw to backdoors, and at biggers streets also the pot odds are there to draw to any nuts. It might be enough to draw to only possible nuts and possible redraw nuts. I think that loose limit game, if one gets the strategy most correct and automatic, would be one of the most relaxed games to play; though at 3-6 and higher level they are not yet offered quite that regularly, and in case they are they don't figure to remain that loose, though omaha pot-limit is still reasonably loose.

Pot-limit has the liberty of betting what one figures, up to the pot size, and I like that too, but it's not that much a percentage game, even though the extra outs are important all over omahas and they don't need to be the nuts that often as they need to be at limit form.

[Aragorn]

The game you describe should be fairly easy to beat. You just need to be EXTREMELY patient, and get off hands quickly if you don't have a very strong hand or a draw to the nuts.

The trap ist that, when you don't play a lot of hand and you finally get one, it is very hard to throw it away if the flop doesn't help.

[mosta]

played the 4-8 spread limit half and half holdem/ om-hi at harrah's in new orleans friday night, for 12 hours. I went up, went down, drank a lot (NB, free drinks, just like for the casino games!), left even. I don't know if I played the omaha right or not. I played pretty tight, much tighter than anyone else at the table (in both games). Looking over this thread, I find two pieces of advice: 1. be super super tight and patient and throw away anything that the flop doesn't hit. 2. play lots of hands because of the big odds from the schooling effect. Both make some sense. I wonder whether anyone really knows how to play loose passive limit omaha high. Compared to hold em, it's rarely played, and there are a lot more starting hand possibilities, so it has nothing like the quasi-scientific body of knowledge built up around it. Two impressions I have from the couple times I've played: 1. straights suck. AoKoQoJo is nothing to get excited about. 2. suited aces, and I think kings, and maybe even queens are very good. Pots are won by flushes and full houses, depending on which gets there. There is always someone with the flush and always someone with two pair drawing to fill up. Therefore high suited cards and high pairs are the way to win. Two pair and straights suck. But, that said, I don't know how borderline a hand to play. The game has probably 7+ people on average going to the flop, often 9 or 10. 4 to 6 often all the way to the river. Little raising. Occasionally one raise before the flop, raising rare after until the flush or full house gets there on the river. Typically the flop is checked around till someone who thinks they have hand, they bet, and everyone calls. (By the way, there was also a 15-30 game, three tables of it in fact, playing about the same--juicy as it looked I didn't have the bank roll.) So my impression is that if you are going to wait for AsAsKsQs, or such (four high cards, no middle cards, with suiting), you are going to play one hand every three hours, probably get outdrawn, and burn off your stack. So you have to get in the action with more marginal cards, but cards that can make big hands. But now how marginal is marginal? QsQo8s7o? Is that a pretty good hand to play or pretty bad? JsJo8s7o? AsJo7s6o? KsQo8s8o? You get the idea. I understand why middle cards are bad, and I know I'm not accounting for position, but it seems like you have to get in there with cards that can make pretty good hands and play a lot of hands if you want to get a good share. Note also, with this spread limit blinds are 1 and 2, and the limit for each bet is Up To 4 (or 8), so you can often limp in for 2 bucks, and when there is a raise before the flop it is usually to 6 or 4 so even if you get raised limping with a questionable hand it's like you're only raised to a real limp for about one small bet.

[Phat Mack]

Were there any omaha hi games spread at higher limits?

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]
Were there any omaha hi games spread at higher limits?

[/ QUOTE ]

just the 15-30. three tables (one must-move). one I watched for about 20 minutes played like the 4-8 mixed game I was in. ie, 6-8 people to the flop, everyone check-calling. I'd have taken my first shot at that high a limit (in any game), but I didn't have bankroll.

otherwise there was a 4-8-12-12 structured omaha high only. 3-6, 6-12, 10-20 hold em. one no limit hold em ring game. and 1-5 stud.

[Ed Miller]

I have been told that, in addition to the 15-30 which seems to go all the time, they sometimes get a 30-60 going. They also spread PLO.