Mistake?

[Rico Suave]

Typical party poker 1/2 table, not overly loose or tight, nor overly passive or aggressive. I do not have any great reads on my opponent, but he did not strike me as a lunatic.

Party Poker 1/2 (7 handed)
Rico has Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, K /images/graemlins/heart.gif and is MP1

Rico raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Rico calls, SB calls

Flop(9 SB): 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, BB bets, Rico calls, SB folds

Turn(5 1/2 BB): J /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets, Rico calls

River(7 1/2 BB): 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB bets, Rico raises, BB calls


I think I made a mistake here....does anyone concur?

[ScottTheFish]

I'm just learning, but I'd say maybe raise the turn with the open end draw (maybe not after he 3 bet pf?), and just call the river when the 3rd diamond hits? (not trying to give anyone advice, just want to see if my thought process is at all decent)

[lil']

Fold the flop. You don't have as many outs as you think you do most of the time. If he has a big pair, you're done. If he has A-Q or A-K, you're drawing very thin.

You gave him the ol' runner runner suckout.

[Robk]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just learning

[/ QUOTE ]

Never feel bad about posting your opinions! It's the quickest way to get better.

[ QUOTE ]
but I'd say maybe raise the turn with the open end draw

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is a good play for the reason you mentioned, and one other. In shorthanded games, players expect you to play more aggressive. This can lessen the effectiveness of strong plays for the pot, since your opponents are prepared to call down with weak hands. Many players, in particular at the 1-2 level, will almost never fold a pair in this type of situation. And many will be prepared to call on the river with unimproved ace high.

[ QUOTE ]
just call the river when the 3rd diamond hits

[/ QUOTE ]

I think raising is the proper play here. Given the way the hand was played, there' no reason to think your opponent has a flush draw. When a pot is only played two or three handed, looking at a flush on the end will be a rare enough occasion that it shouldn't prevent you from raising to get value for your strong hands.

[ScottTheFish]

I think raising is the proper play here. Given the way the hand was played, there' no reason to think your opponent has a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes sense. I guess if he 3 bets pf and then is betting out the whole way it's much more likely he had a pocket pair or something like AK or AQ, and if he was on a draw he would be more likely to be check/calling? Am I close?

[Rico Suave]

Hey Scott:

Thanks for the input.

Quote:
(not trying to give anyone advice, just want to see if my thought process is at all decent)

No problem. I am new as well and I hesitate to give an opinion sometimes because I lack confidence and some people may not welcome a newbie's take. However, I do not mind anyone's opinion---we are all here to get better.

Quote I'd say maybe raise the turn with the open end draw

I would not raise (semi bluff) the turn here unless I thought there was a good chance he would fold to my raise. (which I am not so sure there was). By the way, I did not even consider the semi bluff turn raise...maybe I should have.

Quote: just call the river when the 3rd diamond hits?
I guess he could have 3-bet me with AKsor AQs. But generally, I do not fear the rivered 3 flush board heads up. I think my hand is good often enough to make my raise +EV.

Again, thanks for the input.

--Rico

[JTG51]

I routinely fold on the flop in these situations. I think it's a big chip saver in the long run.

How good are you going to feel if you hit a K or a Q on the turn? Good enough to raise?

[Robk]

I definitely agree when the player 3 betting is marked with a good hand, and against a good opponent I would fold on the flop. But at this limit I don't think that's the case often enough to make folding on the flop correct, as they'll 3 bet with a wide range of hands.

[Joe Tall]

I'd fold the flop in this situation. However, since you took one off, you played it fine.

Peace,
JT

[JTG51]

I should have thrown in the "assuming he has reasonable 3-betting standards" disclaimer.

[Rico Suave]

I agree with you and 'lil on the flop fold. I think that was my big mistake. Being 3-bet could indicate that my k or q outs my not be good at all, and if that is the case, the only draw I have is the backdoor straight.

Would you switch this to a call, if you also had a backdoor flush draw along with the backdoor straight draw getting 10:1 odds?

By the way, Mr. Lumpy posted this hand a little bit ago. He is the one I sucked out on and he had AA.

--Rico

[lil']

Jeez, you're making me feel bad for Mr. Lumpy.

Calling away with overcards in a situation like this will cost you in the long run. Imagine if you turned a king or queen? Ouchie.