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View Full Version : Hand I won, that I am not totally comfortable with my play


Hellrazor
11-14-2003, 12:23 PM
Party Poker 1/2 (10 handed)
Hero has Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and is EP2

UTG limps, EP1 limps, Hero limps, MP2 limps, MP3 limps, Button folds, SB limps, BB checks

AQo in EP with no read on the table yet - it's correct to limp?

Flop(7 SB): 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, EP1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero calls

I think the first call was questionable here, second call? Not sure what to do - probably should have folded.

Turn(7 1/2 BB): Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, SB calls, UTG calls

Perfect card for me here - may put me ahead AND gives me the nut flush draw. Is this the proper time to check raise?
(I feel like such a newb when I ask these questions... /images/graemlins/mad.gif )

River(11 1/2 BB): 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, SB folds, UTG calls

Already know that the flush wins, anyone care to guess the hands for the others?

lil'
11-14-2003, 01:00 PM
Raise pre-flop. It all gets cloudy after that...

Robk
11-14-2003, 01:01 PM
In an unraised pot, with many players to act behind you, folding overcards should be routine. Once you've put in the first bet folding to the second one would be terrible, considering the pot odds. I like betting the turn, as the pot is big and I hate giving free cards.

Bob T.
11-14-2003, 01:49 PM
Raise preflop.

If it is checked to you on the flop, bet.

I would have tried to checkraise the turn, but betting is OK.

Fistdantilus
11-14-2003, 02:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
In an unraised pot, with many players to act behind you, folding overcards should be routine.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue"> Testify! </font> /images/graemlins/heart.gif

CardCuda
11-14-2003, 02:26 PM
Hellrazor -

Moved to Party, how is it? (Cuda from paradise here).

Raise with AQ pre-flop.

Bet the flop (but I probably would've played the same)

Your turn card hit, (check-raise).

I put MP2 on 10-J or a small straight draw. Unclear on the others.

See ya back at Paradise or I might move to Party myself and see ya there. Good Luck.

Hellrazor
11-14-2003, 06:09 PM
Hey Cuda - good to see you here.

MP showed 53o?!?!(5 of /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)
UTG showed ATo(no diamonds)

So far Party 1/2 seems softer than paradise .5/1 - my sample so far is not nearly enough to make a good judgement tho. Party .5/1 is almost like the play money tables at paradise - expect LOTS of action but huge variance as any two will play and draw to the river to lay down the more than occasional bad beat- but when your hand holds up you get paid well.

Thanks to everyone for the help here. You guys rock!

Nottom
11-14-2003, 07:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
So far Party 1/2 seems softer than paradise .5/1 - my sample so far is not nearly enough to make a good judgement tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, your gut feel is right.

rkiray
11-14-2003, 08:17 PM
Raise pf everytime.

On the flop, overcards are only a 7:1 dog and you have really good overcards. Easy call both times. With implied odds you really only need about 4:1 if the board was rainbow. Since you have A of trump you have plenty of odds to call.

GuyOnTilt
11-14-2003, 08:19 PM
Raise pre-flop. It all gets cloudy after that...

I most definitely concur. The PF raise is essential, as others have mentioned, but maybe you don't know why it's important. AQo and other big offsuit hands play poorly in multiway pots. Raising preflop will limit the field (the most important aspect of raising this hand), give you equity (because you most likely have the best hand), and lets you take control of the pot.

When the flop comes, it all depends on how your opponents reacted to your PF raise. Tough to say how many would've called, and thus how you should play the flop and on.

Since you limped PF, I would've folded the flop. After you called the first bet, you must call the second. On the turn, I like betting out rather than check-raising.

GoT

GuyOnTilt
11-14-2003, 08:32 PM
On the flop, overcards are only a 7:1 dog and you have really good overcards.

The fact that his overcards are "really good" also adds to the possibility that they may not be clean. I wouldn't give him 6 clean outs as you did. Including his runner-runner nut flush draw, I'd give him 4, making this a definite fold with so many to act behind him. Closing the action or close to it, go ahead and call, but in this spot, I think a fold is in order.

rkiray
11-14-2003, 09:16 PM
If Party 1/2 games are as wild as I've heard with this many people still in I think he has plenty of implied odds to make the call. If this hand is anywhere close to typical for this table it's an easy call. He makes 5 BBs after hitting his hand and 2 of them from a 53o! So that's 10 SBs of implied odds. Easy call. Sure he got bit by the evil reverse implied odds on the flop, but unless this table was very aggressive, I would not worry about that too much. Perhaps the original poster could describe the table better so we could weigh this in our posts.

rkiray
11-14-2003, 10:22 PM
His outs look clean to me. Almost everyone raises with AA, KK, QQ, or AK. No one raised pf. What does he have to be afraid of? Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ? That would give him TPTK and the nut flush draw. I'd be happy playing that all day.

Nottom
11-15-2003, 12:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
His outs look clean to me. Almost everyone raises with AA, KK, QQ, or AK. No one raised pf. What does he have to be afraid of?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most notably AT, A4, A6, and QT. All hands that could be out there in an unraised pot.

GuyOnTilt
11-15-2003, 12:19 AM
Yes, thank you. Those were more along the lines of what I was thinking. I wasn't worried about domination, but rather 2 pair possibilities.

GoT

rkiray
11-15-2003, 12:55 AM
In a game like this, I suppose any hands are possible, still most of these hands are a stretch (except AT). No way I would play QT in a multi-way pot, but I know lots of people do. I would take away at most one out for hands like that. I think he has plenty of overlay. In general in games like this when people play all kinds of stuff and go to showdown way too much I think all drawing hands increase in value. This includes overcards.