PokerBabe, I think you have a copywright infringement!

[Easy E]

From Rolf Slotboom's latest PokerPages article:
<font color="red"> 1. Dress nicely, shave, don't look tired. Go to the sun studio once in a while. You don't have to wear Armani suits all the time, but make sure you look prepared and ready to do your job: play as well as you can. <font color="blue"> Or, as Dick Davis stated in his "Holy Poker Bible": "A player who looks like a bum is likely to play like a bum. It's for certain he will be thought of as a bum." </font> </font>

If that isn't a blatant theft of "LGPG" then I don't know WHAT is!

Go get'em!

[Ray Zee]

yea the new breed of poker instructors now give advice on how to dress at the table. i remember when some people used to explain the correct way to play hands. if you cant beat a 30/60 game you probably arent qualified to write about other than dressing at the poker table. this may offend some but so be it.

[George Rice]

At least if he recommended eating right and exercising we might be healthier and live longer. We might even be more alert and think better at the poker table. That "sun studio" he recommends can't be too healthy.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

INDEED Easy. The PokerBabe has been imitated many times. There are other babes (I use that term loosely) trying to put up websites with the term "PokerBabe" in them, there are guys trying to use my slogan (but they can't figure out what it means) and there are authors pontificating on the Babe's fashion advice at the poker table. What next? Oh well.....there is nothing like the original, and imitation is the "highest form of flattery".

LGPG,

Babe /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Smoothcall]

Yes i agree. Rolf talks about silly things that are not important because he doesn't know enough technical skill to tell people how to play.

[Tommy Angelo]

"A player who looks like a bum is likely to play like a bum."

Those words only make sense if written while gazing out a corporate office window. The view from the ground is all different. I'm thinking of a handful of tough locals I know, and they are ALL bums! That's how they got so good at poker, by not having a job. And the reason they can stay in action through the tough times is because during the good times you won't find them at the mall. To look down at a poker player because of his clothes is like thinking poorly of a garbageman because he smells bad.

(Ray, you are as always dead on straight and honest and right. hugs)


Tommy

[Rolf Slotboom]

Ray,
Is beating up my regular 500 / 1000 Euro buy-in pot-limit Omaha game against some of the best European players, over a period of four years, 250 days a year, good enough to qualify as a writer, or should I first step down to a $30-60 game?

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Ray,
Is beating up my regular 500 / 1000 Euro buy-in pot-limit Omaha game against some of the best European players, over a period of four years, 250 days a year, good enough to qualify as a writer, or should I first step down to a $30-60 game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rolf,

If you regularly play against "some of the best European players", then I suggest you practice better game selection before teaching others how to dress.

[Easy E]

are you feeling the love??

[Ryan_21]

Why ya'll gots to hate so much, what did Rolf ever do to you, to say he aint qualified as a writer and that he needs to make better game selection?

I feel ya Rolf, no matter what you do or how good you do it man, the haters are still gonna come in droves.

Ryan_21

[Ray Zee]

well sorry rolf, my post wasnt directed really at you as to writers that arent qualified. i do not have the slightest idea if you are qualified or not to give advice. if you beat the high stakes pot limit games you are probably a winning player in those games and could give pot limit advice. why dont you do that instead of on how to dress at the poker table. save that for our paer babe as she is the one qualifed for that task.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Rolf:

It's real easy. Spend some times on thses forums and demonstrate that you really do understand how to play poker well. That will not only enhance your reputation and earn our respect, but you'll develop a following among many of our posters. Do however keep in mind that we do hold writers to higher standards.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Ray,
Is beating up my regular 500 / 1000 Euro buy-in pot-limit Omaha game against some of the best European players, over a period of four years, 250 days a year, good enough to qualify as a writer, or should I first step down to a $30-60 game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rolf,

Your column is the first I turn to every time I open cardplayer, namely because you're one of the few columnists to talk about PLO, which is my favorite game. You have had several columns that have helped my game, and a few I've been openly critical of in the Pot Limit forum here.

However, I have noticed with increasing regularity your columns have been dealing with things like table attitude, limit holdem advice, limit omaha hi advice (a game that virtually NO ONE plays). Your holdem advice has been sketchy, perhaps way too tight. The players who read on this forum and probably cardplayer in general are way beyond that stage.

So, stick to the PL games, I for one cannot read enough about this game.

Acesover8s

P.s. Do not think this question rude, I can't find a way to word it that comes out otherwise, but Hellmuth has his column because he wins a lot of tournies, Shulman owns the company, etc. How did you get your column?

[PokerBabe(aka)]

I suspect that SOME of the European guys Rolf plays against are quite fashion conscious. The fashion centers of London, Paris and Milan are the hub of real "style". Rolf may just be more aware of fashion than many other guys.

In the U.S., designers often do inexpensive "take offs" of the "real couture". Just because you cannot afford the best, does not mean that you should look like you can only afford the worst.

I know players who literally have been wearing the same clothes for a decade. In some cases, these guys (99% are guys) wear clothes with holes in them and they don't even bother to iron the stuff they do have. There is just no excuse for that. I think there is some merit to the implication that a sloppy person is a sloppy thinker. I am with Rolf on this one, and agree that we should not only PG but LG as well.

Babe
/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[johnnyhearts]

Johnny Hearts would like to get to the bottom of this little skirmish and I have a great idea! I propose that Mr. Slotboom, whose articles I've enjoyed and learned from, and any 2+2 authors that would like to participate each take an agreed upon starting bankroll ie.) $100,000 or whatever and see who can turn it into more over the next 6 months. All gentlemen will be trusted, of course, to be honest about their results.

An interesting side wager might be to see who gets laid more over the next 6 months as well but, perhaps this would be in poor taste. Mr. Slotboom seems like a gentlemen after all.

A classic duel, gentlemen of leisure. Mr. Slotboom has been slandered.

Johnny Hearts

[Easy E]

"well sorry rolf, my post wasnt directed really at you as to writers that arent qualified. i do not have the slightest idea if you are qualified or not to give advice. "

I mean, how else was he supposed to read that, Ray?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Easy:

I disagree. In my years of experience, whenever someone points out to me that "I'm a pot limit player" in almost every case they played so bad they couldn't have a clue how to play most any kind of poker. See "Pot-Limit Players" in Poker Essays, Volume III.

Now that may not be the case here, but I've never been impressed with someone telling me about how they beat all the best players in Europe. During tourney time in Las Vegas I get to play with some of these in the limit hold 'em and stud games. Perhaps they're good at pot limit Omaha, but in general at hold 'em or stud they're awful.

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Your holdem advice has been sketchy, perhaps way too tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Acesover:

This is something that I just mentioned in my current Card Player column. One suspicion I have for it is that the author who gives this type of advice actually plays very little hold 'em. Thus he feels safe being very conservative.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Bill Murphy]

This sort of follows, doesn't it? Planning any poker vacations to Europe, or Tunica, FTM?

[Bill Murphy]

Mason is married &amp; Rolf has a LTGF. Both hotties.

The girls, that is.

[Ralle]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never been impressed with someone telling me about how they beat all the best players in Europe. During tourney time in Las Vegas I get to play with some of these in the limit hold 'em and stud games. Perhaps they're good at pot limit Omaha, but in general at hold 'em or stud they're awful.


[/ QUOTE ]

Since game selection is perhaps the most important choice you make in poker, and assuming Malmuth is correct, wouldn't that mean that we should all go to Paris, London, and Vienna to play?

[Easy E]

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Mason Malmuth]

No. No. And no.

MM

[DABANGER]

Gentlemen of leisure and goodwill:

This is a typical post on two plus two. Some nerd with more posts than hands played takes a break from the Star Trek marathon on public access cable and decides to take issue with a piece of advice offered from a player that crushes a game that most of us only have wet dreams about.

Then the pack of haters come out like jackals to tear up some one that they would dread to sit across the table from.

Rolf, I will continue to read your articles and enjoy them. Good luck on continuing to beat the game in Europe.

Sincerely,


James Cole
Bangtown, USA (pop. 1)

[Robk]

[ QUOTE ]
Is beating up my regular 500 / 1000 Euro buy-in pot-limit Omaha game against some of the best European players

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just curious, how important a factor in this success is going to the sun studio? Could you give me a number between 1 and 100? I think it's a 41.5.

[M.B.E.]

I started a related thread on the psychology forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=410632).

[Easy E]

Some wannabe with no real knowledge of the reasoning behind the post chimes in out of the blue and smugly assumes that they know everything about anything.
In their arrogance, they decide that they MUST enlighten the rest of us poor schlubs and bring order to our chaotic lives. Therefore, they leave us a shining, yet ironic, post of their own that clarifies several things, but nothing related to their supposed point. Instantly jumping to what couldn't be anything but the perfect conclusion, they post something that adds about the same value that they have brilliantly analyzed within the message that they presumed to be above.

Thanks for sharing ...and that's nerdette to you, sweetheart
XOXOXOXO

[DABANGER]

Dear Nerdette:

Yes your last post quite accurately encapsulates what I described. Congratulations on your 900+ posts to this forum. If you get a thousand or more, does Mason send you a set of steak knifes? Not the cheap, inferior European kind, but the kind made from quality steel made right here in the good ol' USA.

My point is this, and put Captain Kirk on TiVo for a moment and pay attention.

1.) Rolf Slotboom is a winning high limit player.

2.) Rolf Slotboom gave a piece of advice on how to enhance your table image. From your post, he advises to dress nicely and lose the pale, chalky complexion that one can get from the CRT of a computer pursuing the noble endeavor of reaching the 1,000 post plateau on 2 + 2.

I don't play $500/$1,000 PLO and I probably never will. There are few people who are good enough to do this. I would wager that you are also not playing this limit. Mr. Slotboom is obviously making a pretty decent living at the game, so I would take a stab in the dark here and say that *maybe* his advice on the subject just might hold a teensy, weensy bit of merit.

Who cares if this advice is duplicated elsewhere? I sure don't. The fact that the advice is duplicated somewhere else tends to give it more merit. Does that mean if I make a post that says to raise Aces, my advice is without merit because some book says the same thing.

Moreover, my point was the negativity in some of the posts, mainly by people calling his skill as a player into question. If those people didn't make those retarded posts, I would have not been obliged to respond. Don't blame me, it's a medical condition. I have allegeries to haters and retards. I makes me break out in inflammatory posts.

Send it.

Sincerely,


James Cole,
Bangtown, USA (pop. 1)

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi DB:

I think some of your facts are off. First, Slotboom said he played 500/1,000 buy-in Euro-Dollar game. That's a lot different from a $500/$1,000 game.

As for being a successful high limit player, perhaps that the case. But if you look at his web site you will see that he recently went on a poker cruise as a dealer.

But none of that is really important. He's someone who gives advice on how to play poker, and in the past I have found some of it to be questionable. However, I do believe he's trying to do the right thing, and his advice is certainly much better than some other writers. However, he does need to realize that limit Omaha for high only is close to a dead game.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Easy E]

... so I'll clear it up for you, since you're too enamored of yourself to read properly.

a) Read the title of my original post again, then read the last line. Now see if, in all of your brillance, you can summarize CORRECTLY what the message was behind my post
(i'll give you a hint, Superstar- read PokerBabe(aka)'s response...)

b) Read my "shotgun" titled response to Ray, if you still can't figure out my attitude towards Rolf.

c) If you can find ONE WORD in any of the posts here where I said one negative thing about Rolf or his advice, I'll eat my chair and send you $1,000.

Oh, and two more things, while you're basking in your amazing powers of analytical prowess:

- That's 900+ posts in 14 months. I've been here since '99. I got a monogrammed set a long time ago.
(I've been fantasizing about Captain Kirk for longer than you've been around, I'm sure)

- If you can stand to lower yourself to continue communicating with us inferior retards for 900 posts of your own (only 860 to go!) maybe you'll learn how to comprehend the written word AND a little bit more of when to raise and when to fold...

[Schmed]

I've heard you say this before Mason but here in the gulfsouth you can find games all over. They also spread a number of tournys online that are limit hi only Omaha.

[Ralle]

[ QUOTE ]
Slotboom said he played 500/1,000 buy-in Euro-Dollar game

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, actually there is no such thing as a Euro-Dollar.

[ QUOTE ]
That's a lot different from a $500/$1,000 game

[/ QUOTE ]
In a PL 1,000 Euro buy-in game the blinds are probably something like 10/20 Euro, which is about the same as 10/20 USD.

[Ralle]

Still, I think Slotboom's advice is good. It's never a bad thing to dress nicely, on the contrary people who dress very sloppily are often regarded in a negative way by others. Out of respect for your peers, it is good to think at least a little about your appearance.

While it may not hold true for everyone, some of us actually get more serious and focused, regarding almost anything, when we take the time to prepare, e.g. by our outward appearance. So, unless you are absolutley sure that your perfomance is in no way affected by your apperance, it could be worth while thinking about these things. I like to come fully prepared to a game, and those preparations include taking a shower, shaving, and dressing nicely.

Also, if this has a positive impact on people who are thinking about maybe trying this poker thing, then so much better. If a new player comes to a table with sloppy, unshaven, smelly guys, he may think twice about sitting down.

[Easy E]

but "whenever someone points out to me that "I'm a pot limit player" in almost every case they played so bad they couldn't have a clue how to play most any kind of poker"

does this apply to NL players as well? Or is it only PL that you're singling out here?

[Gamblor]

Perhaps a tournament for poker book/article writers?

Rolf, Mason, DS, Negreanu, Lee Jones, etc. etc.

Of course, we'll all have to lay out another 22.95 to read about the experiences and big hands.

[Tommy Angelo]

"I like to come fully prepared to a game, and those preparations include taking a shower, shaving, and dressing nicely."

Me too. I really like that. And I also like to get right out of bed and almost touch my toes one time and have my first cup of coffee delivered by a familiar waitress while I take my first big blind. Both ways can be wonderful, and I'd wish them both on whoever desired either.

"If a new player comes to a table with sloppy, unshaven, smelly guys, he may think twice about sitting down."

That goes both ways. He could also think: Man, what a totally relaxed place to hang.

I'm not an advocate of either way. I've looked at looks from both sides now. And I still celebrate diversity, and choice.


Tommy

[baggins]

of course i agree with you. the poker table shouldn't be a place where people are socialized into wearing something that isn't them.

too many poker players i've seen have a horrible sense of style. horrible as in cheesy chintzy old-man-in-a-jogging-suit gawdy, too-many-gold-rings-and-bracelets, etc. but i've seen all kinds. i too celebrate this diversity. for the very fact that these guys can wear this crap and get away with it is why i can get away with wearing what i wear, which to them might be utter nonsense (probably is).

anyway, slob or gentleman, you're always welcome at my table. just don't act like a d!ck and we have no problems.

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, actually there is no such thing as a Euro-Dollar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Acutually, a Eurodollar is a term for US currency held outside the United States, and is used as a vehicle for trading on short-term interest rates. See The Chicago Mercantile Exchange (http://www.cme.com/) for more details.

[Ralle]

[ QUOTE ]
Acutually, a Eurodollar is a term for US currency held outside the United States, and is used as a vehicle for trading on short-term interest rates.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok. But what I meant was that the European currency, which is what was referred to in this case, is called Euro.

[deathtoau]

[ QUOTE ]
on the contrary people who dress very sloppily are often regarded in a negative way by others.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the very reason I prefer to play unshaven and in a wrinkled T-shirt. I am a young guy in my early twenties; most of the poker "experts" at the table see me and figure I am just some young kid who doesn't know anything about anything. By dressing in a manner that reinforces their own prejudices, I give them a false first impression. Also, my first orbit I generally play much more loose-aggressive than normal (playing hands and raising with cards I normally fold without a second thought.) Later, when I revert to my normal tight-aggressive style, most never make the sub-conscience reversal to match my actual play with their misguided first impression of me. By overemphasizing a trait, my appearance, I can delude others into thinking “he is just a kid with more money than sense.” The +EV from having opponents disrespect me and my play provides more opportunities for me to get called down by worse hands because “this is the hand I show the kid who is boss.”

I don’t play poker to impress the tourists, I play to take their money!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Schmed:

First of all, tourneys are different from the day in and day out games.

Second, because of the success of the poker TV shows and the Internet cardrooms there is a new interest in some of these games. Thus forms of poker, like no limit hold 'em which normally don't get spread anywhere, are now being spread in some places, particularly the Internet. How long this will last is anyone's guess.

Best wishes,
mason

[Easy E]

Since it's so inexpensive to spread it online, without having to worry about the game sustaining itself daily (from the operator's profit perspective), do you think it has any shot at maintaining its existance in cyberspace?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi EE:

I don't know the answer. Because of the events of this past year, all the rules have changed and all bets are off. I think the future can hold anything as far as poker is concerned.

Best wishes,
Mason

[daryn]

yes

[andyfox]

Slotboom was talking about how others perceive a professional player. He feels that if you want to be feared and respected, looking good can contribute to that. He feels that part of "keeping them happy," and keeping them wanting to play with you, is not looking like a "bum."

This seems reasonable. It may also be more reasonable in Europe than here in the U.S. I was recently in London and Paris when the weathe was unseasonably warm. My son and I were virtually the only men walking the streets in shorts. While the casual look has become more acceptable everywhere in recent years, it seems that European attitudes towards dress are not quite as layed back as they are here. So Slotboom's advice may well be more worth heeding if one plays in Europe than in the U.S.

This idea was broached by John Fox thirty years ago in Play Poker, Quit Work, and Sleep 'til Noon. I think it probably had more application then than now, when casual dress is more the norm.

[Schmed]

thanks for the response Mason..due respect...

I really was only pointing out the online tourny as an example of interest. In the gulf south at every Casino there is an Omaha hi only game rolling. Most of the time they have limits as hi as 15-30. Omaha Hi really is this towns game. At Harrahs there is often 1-4-8-8 half and half game, 4-8-12 Omaha hi only, and a 15-30 Omaha hi only. I wish they spread the hi low split but apparently people in these parts don't like to share....... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gitz]

Z what happened to the hourly insults that people dished out and would come back with one liners rather than take offense!!!! The good ole days of the forum!!!!!

rcp

[Easy E]

I assume that your reply wasn't directed to me, but to the thread in general.

I don't think that you were trying to explain to me what Rolf was writing, were you?

[andyfox]

Yes, to the thread in general. Seemed to me the reactions to it were a bit over the top, in particular, those of our hosts.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Andy:

I disagree.

It's our purpose as hosts to steer our readers to those entities that are worthwhile. In this situation, we want to distinguish between those writers who put out good stuff and those who do not. That's why we hold other writers to a higher standard and appear to be pretty tough on them at times. That's also why we refuse to link to countless other sites who contact us and tell us that by exchanging links with them it will be good for our website. We built our business on quality, not quantity.

So this brings us to Rolf Slotboom. At this point in time, even though he's a fairly active writer who gives out advice, I'm not sure which camp he belongs to. That is I'm not sure whether we should steer our readers towards or away from him.

If he chose to participate here more we would quickly get a good idea. Furthermore, and this I'm sure of, by participating here more he would get better, and I do believe he wants to be good. This would be especially true if he took part in those forums that address games which people play a lot, and pot limit Omaha is certainly not one of them.

Best wishes,
mason

[Tommy Angelo]

"he recently went on a poker cruise as a dealer."

Interesting that someone might see this as a sign that there's something wrong the Rolf picture, and I see it as a brilliant idea. If I was more connected (or hireable!), I'd do it in a second.


Tommy

[Tommy Angelo]

"I'm not sure whether we should steer our readers towards or away from him [Rolf]."

A typical music teacher teaches his students how to play songs. A good music teacher teaches his students how to listen to songs.

[ACPlayer]

Perfect sentiment. Thank you.

[andyfox]

Hi Mason,

I am happy that you are harder on published authors than on others. I'm looking for (and have found) quality information on 2+2 and it is great that not only do we find that in your writings, but in your advice on others' writings.

But Rolf was addressing a specific issue, namely how to maintain a user-friendly game.

Here were your and Ray's responses:

Ray:
"yea the new breed of poker instructors now give advice on how to dress at the table. i remember when some people used to explain the correct way to play hands. if you cant beat a 30/60 game you probably arent qualified to write about other than dressing at the poker table. this may offend some but so be it."

Mason:
"I disagree. In my years of experience, whenever someone points out to me that 'I'm a pot limit player' in almost every case they played so bad they couldn't have a clue how to play most any kind of poker. Now that may not be the case here, but I've never been impressed with someone telling me about how they beat all the best players in Europe. During tourney time in Las Vegas I get to play with some of these in the limit hold 'em and stud games. Perhaps they're good at pot limit Omaha, but in general at hold 'em or stud they're awful."

So there were indeed comments by both you and Ray suggesting that Rolf talked about dressing because he probably can't play. The article from which the quote came was not about playing strategy. So I found your and Ray's response a bit over the top, in terms of suggesting that he might not be a good person to take advice from. But the advice in the article, I think, stands on its own and can be critiqued irrespective of whether or not Mr. Slotboom is a good player. In fact, MBE started an interesting thread on the psychology forum debating this very issue of dressing up at the table.

Best regards,
Andy

[Easy E]

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Andy:

I don't think so. Here is what Rolf wrote.

Ray,
Is beating up my regular 500 / 1000 Euro buy-in pot-limit Omaha game against some of the best European players, over a period of four years, 250 days a year, good enough to qualify as a writer, or should I first step down to a $30-60 game?

Since I'm the one who has spent most of his playing time the past few years in $30-$60 games, who do you think this shot was aimed at? It certainly wasn't Ray (or David).

best wishes,
Mason

[andyfox]

Rolf's post was in direct response to Ray's where Ray said people write about dressing because they can't beat a 30-60 game. It was Ray who brought this up, specifically mentioning the 30-60 stake, and so Rolf, the way I read it, said he beats bigger games than the stakes Ray mentioned. The first shot was taken by Ray. I really think your reading of Rolf's post as a shot at you is mistaken. It was responding to the allegation by Ray that some poker writers talk about things other than strategy because they couldn't beat a 30-60 game.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Tommy:

I don't care if he works as a dealer or not. But generally people who are killing high limit games and feel that playing as low as $30-$60 is insulting don't do this. So it makes his claim suspect to me.

I do care if the advice that he gives is good or not.

Best wishes,
mason

[johnnyhearts]

Mr. Malmuth,

As you well know, I too am a firm believer in holding published authors to a higher standard....er...not you guys though! I've learned my lesson on that point. I have noticed, however, that your colleague Mr. Sklansky never gets on board with putting someone like Mr. Slotboom in their well deserved place on the bottom of the poker literature hierarchy. What's wrong with him?! I would think he needs to shoulder his share of the burden of saving the poker world from these charlatans.

I was wondering, also, if you might consider commenting on the ridiculous rumour going around that pot limit Omaha is, not only played in the barbarous hinterlands of Europe, but, in fact, quite popular there!

Johnny Hearts/ Team Leisure

"when two and two could have been three as easily as five, if that were what was needed." -Orwell

[Ray Zee]

andy, what i wrote can be interpeted many ways you chose to take it one way and so did rolf. to say it again-- i dont kknow the guy and have no way of knowing if he can beat any game or knows his stuff. i am glad he replied and maybe reads here but maybe if he wants credibility, he should make some quality posts.
i wrote--
Ray:
"yea the new breed of poker instructors now give advice on how to dress at the table. i remember when some people used to explain the correct way to play hands. if you cant beat a 30/60 game you probably arent qualified to write about other than dressing at the poker table. this may offend some but so be it."

i didnt specifically mean him as i said the plural of instructor. also by beating a limit game was just an example. my response was basically genereric but i am glad it created some contravery and got a response from him.
since i dont read those articles often i still dont know if he writes about poker or dressing up. if its both good for him. but i still see most articles as garbage mostly because the authors dont know enough about what they are talking about to write something that wont be laughed at.
also beating pot limit omaha in europe only qualifies you to beat that game. and i didnt know about the poker dealing job. that is highly suspicious as him not being able to beat a large game at all. i do hope he does as i wish him well, as he took offense to my remark and i am sorry about that, and he didnt make a vivious attack as some might. i suspect he is a gentleman and i wish he posts here and shows us that he can stand the heat,as well as reap the rewards of increased credibility that comes from public exposure to other experts.

[Tommy Angelo]

"and i didnt know about the poker dealing job. that is highly suspicious as him not being able to beat a large game at all."

Hi Ray,


I'm talking generically, just like you were ...

Let's say a guy lives totally off of playing poker for some number of years. If we have to put a number to it, make it five years or more. Then he goes belly up. Maybe he did most everything as best he could, which was damn good, and he simply couldn't keep up with expenses. Of maybe he did stuff that a panel would judge as dumb, like not dropping down in stakes with a tattered bankroll after a real bad run. It only took one night to lose it all.

He ran out of gas, or he ran off the road. For my question, it doesn't matter. What does is, he's out of the race.

Was he a success or failure?

I say success, bigtime.



Tommy

[skp]

I got into this thread late but I believe Andy has it right.

Also, FWIW, I generally like Rolf's articles in Cardplayer. There were a couple he wrote this year which I thought were really excellent.

[johnnyhearts]

Mr. Zee,

I've read the comment a few times that Mr. Slotboom, if he desires respect in the poker community, needs to post more on 2+2. If the collection of poker geeks and racked off tilters that post here daily deem his comments and advice on the game worthy (A game that is played in their locality by the way) then he has finally arrived.

I wanted to point out that I've never seen posts on 2+2 by Mike Caro, Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim, and the list probably continues. Now, perhaps they have catchy handles but I doubt it. Are these gentlemen worthy of respect in the poker community? Does their written word warrant a read through? Hmmmmmmm.

Also, allow me to point out that it's amusing when I read comments about Mr. Slotboom wasting his time analyzing a "dead" game. This is a matter of opinion of course but, poker is poker! Allow me to quote Mr. Sklansky himself and say, "to look at another example from Razz...".

Johnny Hearts/ Team Leisure

[Ray Zee]

johnny, those guys have already made themselves famous. and have credibility in their fields of expertise. slotbloom hasnt achieved this so if he wants to be recognized as any kind of authority he does need to find a place to prove it. this site is the most respected by far. so i say it is the best place to start. writing articles is only one way, here you fend off both sides.

[Ray Zee]

tommy, your example is not in a general case but a specific one. in yours, he is indeed a success somewhat for the time he was a success. if he was truly a winner his return would be assured. it is a common theme in gambling for this to happen. and i take nothing away from someone in this spot but applaud them.

it boils down to when your down do you stay down.

but everyone that is happy is a success at what they do. that is really the only qualifier.

[Howard Burroughs]

FWIW everyone, Doyle Brunson &amp; Mike Caro have posted on 2+2 in the past.


Ray Zee is my favorite though. He's the stone cold nuts.


Best

H.B.

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Andy:

I don't think so. Here is what Rolf wrote.

Ray,
Is beating up my regular 500 / 1000 Euro buy-in pot-limit Omaha game against some of the best European players, over a period of four years, 250 days a year, good enough to qualify as a writer, or should I first step down to a $30-60 game?

Since I'm the one who has spent most of his playing time the past few years in $30-$60 games, who do you think this shot was aimed at? It certainly wasn't Ray (or David).

best wishes,
Mason


[/ QUOTE ]

This response exemplifies perfectly your persecution complex.

[nicky g]

". This would be especially true if he took part in those forums that address games which people play a lot, and pot limit Omaha is certainly not one of them."

I don't think that's fair. PLO and its variants (5 card, 6 card, hilo etc) is probably the most spread cash game in Europe; certainly in the UK, and certainly as far as high stakes games go. Granted poker is much smaller in Europe than in the USA but it's absurd to suggest that PLO is not a game which is played "a lot." It's not as if there aren't enough people writing about/discussing limit already.

I also think it's perfectly obvious that Rolf was replying directly to Ray's comment about not being able to beat a 30-60 game when he asked if he should move "down" to 30-60. Given that you hand't even posted in the thread yet, and that Rolf in all likelihood is unaware that you're a regular 30-60 player, I don't understand why you should take this as a shot aimed at you. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here.