Question about Intercasino Blackjack

[tiltboy]

I was playing their single player blackjack this afternoon trying to earn some deposit bonus money when a hand was dealt that had 2 K /images/graemlins/spade.gif's. I had one and the dealer had one. I would have thought this game was dealt from a single deck but hopefully I am wrong. Otherwise...

I checked on their web site and couldn't find the specifics on that game but I did find this: "Try Single Deck BlackJack, Multi-Hand BlackJack - or to increase the odds in your favour, try the Multi-Split version of the game."

This seems to state that at least one of their BJ games is single deck. It seems odd to me that it would not be the single player BJ game. Thanks in advance for any help.

[Cubswin]

Tilt

Here are the specs for Inter's game:

1) 8 decks
2) American Peak rules: dealer checks for blackjack
3) dealer stays on soft 17
4) may double after splitting
5) one card after split aces
6) one split per hand
7) double any first 2 cards
8) no surrender

The house edge on this game is at .49%. They do have a single deck game but you need to obtain VIP status to play it (not sure how this is done) and it has a $50 minimum. This single deck game actually has a player edge. Still the .49 house edge is not to shabby when taken into consideration with the $80 monthly match bonus (this month it is actually $100). With the $80 match and $1600 playthrough requirement, with $5 bets, you can expect to make about $68 for a little over 2 hours of 'work'. You can also expect to bust about 43% of the time (i think my simulations produced the correct figures...but if im wrong im sure someone will point out my mistakes). Just remember that if you bust one month the unmet playthrough requirement from the previous month still must be meet. But who cares?....this is a no lose situation :-)

regards
cubswin

[squiffy]

Cubs, two questions, please.

1. If you bet $2 a hand, does this alter your bust percentage or likelihood of busting out over 800 hands? If so, what is the figure.

2. Why would they offer a VIP single-deck game online with postive EV for the player? It seems insane. Or at least inadvisable for a casino to offer any game that is long-term positive EV for a player. I mean, you can take your time and count cards. Why wouldn't you play?

Though what kind of bankroll would you need to play at $50 a bet. And how much money will you lose trying to attain VIP status?

[squiffy]

Cubs, one last question.

3. I have a chart showing optimal strategy. It shows you should never split tens or picture cards.

But I can't understand why this would be correct. If the dealer is showing a 2 or 3, let's say. Wouldn't it make sense to split your tens? I mean the dealer could easily bust. Chances are he has a 10 for 13 and will have to hit.

Chances are when you draw to your 10, you will hit a 10, or something higher than 3.

In short, I am wondering if my chart is inaccurate. I think I got it from the wizardofodds site. I found it in an internet search, but I have seen it recommended here.

[Cubswin]

1) let me get back to you on this in a few minutes....i ran simulations with different bet sizes not to long ago but am now having trouble finding it on my hard drive.

2) my guess is that it is extemely tough to get VIP status. before giving you this status i assume they would review your play and if they saw you only played BJ they might reconsider their offer. also, i assume they could revoke VIP status at any time.

anyway...ill get back to you when i dig up this doc

regards
cubswin

[squiffy]

I just thought of something. If they reshuffle after ever hand. And if the VIP single deck blackjack is limited to one player, one hand. Then even if you could take all the time in the world and count cards, you wouldn't have many cards to count. Unless they dealt multiple hands without reshuffling. Or unless they allow you to play say 5 hands at a time, you probably won't have much of an edge, if any.

What do you think?

[CORed]

Your strategy chart is correct (at least regarding splitting 10's) As to why, the short answer is that for any dealer upcard, the EV is higher standing on your 20. Twenty is a hand that will win or push a very high percentage of the time in blackjack. Although splitting 10's is a +EV play, it is not as good as sticking with your 20, even with the doubled bet.

[Cubswin]

Squiffy

These are my figures for intercasino's $80 match bonus with the $1600 playthrough. They are 1 million trial samples so they should be pretty darn acurate. The figures given are bets size, EV and riak of ruin

$1 $64.69 9.46%
$2 $65.61 22.74%
$3 $66.69 31.12%
$4 $67.05 38.34%
$5 $67.80 43.18%

I can run it for higher bet amounts if youd like. Just let me know.

regards
cubswin

[squiffy]

That makes sense. Thanks!!!

[CORed]

Another reason for offering a +EV blackjack game is that the game is only +EV if you play correct basic strategy, which very few blackjack players actually do. Also, most online casinos shuffle the deck for every hand, so card counting isn't an option. The best you can do is to play perfect strategy.

[squiffy]

Thanks, Cubs!!! That's amazing.

It's interesting how much going from $2 to $1 substantially decreases your risk of ruin.

My goal is to minimize my risk of ruin. Or as you so aptly put it, my "riak of ruin."

I have to give Intercasino this much. Without their $80 bonus, I would never have played Blackjack in a million years, given the negative EV.

BY the way, if the house edge is .49, what can the house expect to earn on average after 100 hands, 1000, hands, etc.???

[CORed]

I don't know what the rules for Intercasino blackajackd are, but the player advantage is probably very small. For all practical purposes, it is probably a break-even game. Some Colorado casinos offer +EV single deck games, but with the $5 bet limit, the theroretical win rate for basic strategy is less that $1.00 per hour, and because the bet size is fixed, you don't gain much by counting cards. Also, in blackjack, even with card counting, the edge is very small compared to the variance, so you need a big bankroll and the fluctuations can be huge.

[squiffy]

This is just a sidethought. I love playing chess and poker. They are both fun, fascinating games, with a lot of depth and strategy and elements of psychology. A reasonably intelligent person can enjoy a lifetime of playing, studying and improving their game.

Quite frankly I don't understand why so many people enjoy playing Blackjack in casinos. To begin with, it's negative EV. So playing even one hand seems stupid.

I have only played when say the Riviera offers a coupon giving you say $2 in matching funds when you risk $2 on a hand. I have assumed this makes the bet positive EV. Though I am not sure if this is correct.

But in comparison to poker and chess, BlackJack seems to mechanical, stale, and boring.

I would never have played if it hadn't been for the Intercasino Bonus offer. Quite frankly, I think cow-tipping would probably be a more interesting activity, with at least a modicum of strategic and psychological elements.

[CORed]

I dabbled in card-counting for awhile, and you are right. Blackjack is boring. Playing it optimally is an excercise in rote memorization. Counting cards just means that there is more to keep track of, but there is basicly only one right way to play a hand. The only real challenge comes if you are counting cards for high stakes. Then the challenge is getting away with it so the casino doesn't kick you out. I never played high enough that they cared. Most casinos tolerate low stakes counters, because they won't make enough money to hurt them and if the fish see them winning, it may keep them coming back. I like poker better. It is a much more interesting game, and you can make a significant amount of money without having an enormous bankroll.

[ramjam]

Thanks for sharing your excellent research.

I think that the Intercasino playthrough requirement has now been increased to 25x (with the new $100 max).

[Adde]

Another reason for offering a +EV blackjack game is that the game is only +EV if you play correct basic strategy...

And another one is that it's, I imagine, quite easy to just play another ten dollars of your own money when your bonus bankroll is gone, cause you saw ten minutes ago that it is possible to win, and then just another...


adde

[Homer]

BY the way, if the house edge is .49, what can the house expect to earn on average after 100 hands, 1000, hands, etc.???

.49% of the amount you bet. So, if you bet $2 per hand and play 1000 hands, on average you will lose $2000*.49%, which is just under $10.

-- Homer

[goodguy_1]

Cubs I assume you play the multi-hand bj and play maximum number of hands per deal(5)..is that correct? thats what I do..your numbers look accurate just from personal experience.

I usually bet 5 hands at Multi-hand starting at $2 or $3 bets than adjust as I go along to use my time as efficiently as possible but keeping not busting out as my main priority...If I start out well after a decent amount of action I'll pump it up to $5 per hand or more ..if getting crushed I go down to $1-$2 per hand.


Playing at $1,$2 or $3 a hand even multi-hand is a real grind.I used to have the time handy on how many hours these bets sizes took on average to clear the bonus assuming you didnt have any prior months action added but it's not around.

Thats why I try to get up to $5 min. fast if not it's too much
of a grind and may not be worth your time on an hourly earn basis versus your normal poker earn.

[squiffy]

THanks Homer. As RamJam pointed out, this month they offer $100 bonus with 25x playthrough requirement. Don't know if this is a temporary or permanent offer.

So you deposit $100, they give you $100. To clear the $100 bonus you need to play 25x $100 or $2500. If the house advantage is .0049 or .49%, then you stand to lose about $12.25. So if they give you $100 to play with, this sounds like a very attractive offer, if you have the discipline to play optimal BlackJack strategy.

But I played twice. And lost $60 of the bonus money the first time and lost $40 of the bonus money the second time. Still, I was up $20 the first time and $40 the second time.

So either I got unlucky or did not play optimal strategy. I think a little of both probably.

[tiltboy]

I finally made it through a 20x requirement and was able to cashout over $160 from playing blackjack using multideck basic strategy after starting with their $80 bonus. This was my third attempt and the first time I've made it without busting out. The odd thing is I can't login to my ICP poker client and have been unable to create a new account that I can login to even with much help from their "support". I emailed Ryan Hartley to say I would no longer keep attempting to fix the ICP poker client problems I was having since they were giving me a migrane and he wrote back and apologized and said a major software upgrade was in the works and expected to be released before year end. Perhaps there is hope yet.

I guess in the meantime I'll just deposit the $80 or $100 and play blackjack with the bonus money but I'll no longer play poker there.

[goodguy_1]

squiff :
be an automaton..optimum basic strategy is shown on InterCasino's website: Basic Strategy (http://www.intercasino.com/help/rules/blackjacks.shtml)

[tiltboy]

I have some nits to pick about that strategy chart. The IC BJ game (8 decks, dealer stands on 17, double-down on any two cards, double after split allowed, no re-splitting of cards allowed, no surrender) appears to be Atlantic City rules or very close to them. Based on that I don't believe their chart is correct in the following respect.

The chart shows you should split 9s against a 7, a Ten, and an Ace. I stand on these. I'm getting my info from Blackjack for Blood. If I'm wrong about this, could someone please set me straight about why?

[ramjam]

I got the same answer as you using the Perfect Play Blackjack Applet. (http://www.gamblingtools.net/bj/ppbj.html) Your answer is also consistent with the strategy recommended for Cryptologic games on wizardofodds.com.

[tiltboy]