Letting go of Top Pair - Ace Kicker (A big Leak)

[CardCuda]

This is a generalized, not a hand review.. .50-1.00 limit.

This is a huge leak for me at this limit.

A-Q, A-J, A-10 (suited and offsuit) against limpers 40-50% seeing flop.
You are in MP1 to CO with the above hands.

Limpers to you, raise or limp (I usually raise against limpers). Everyone calls your raise.

Flop comes with X, X, and your top pair (Q, J, or 10) and the board is not threatening (un-paired and no flushes).

Checked to you if EP limpers you bet and most call. Or 1 Bet and you raise and 2-3 calls.

Turn is blank you still have top pair, bet or checked to you (same as above raise or bet, 2 stay and call your bet or raise).

River the dreaded K, Q, or J (in order to the above hands)(you no longer have top pair) UGH.

It's checked to you, mmmmmm, check call mode (the weak tight disease) your already invested in the pot and you know you had the lead.

It's bet again to you, mmmmm, raise, call (again your invested in the pot, one BB to to see (call) even though your sure the river has drowned you.

Summary you lose - with people hanging on to the over cards.

Any defense against this (besides jamming the pots) when you know your ahead....or should I move to a higher limit to rid myself of the river rage.....let go of my TPAK on the river. When the over card falls, bluff and get called and lose (situation normal) Call and lose (situation normal) Check and lose (situation normal) Frustration and tilt begin....take a break and start anew. Only for it to happen again...yikes. It's killing me. I'm pretty agressive and find myself going into weak-tight mode if it happens 2-3 times in a short or at the beginning of a session. Flop 2 pair an over-pair or better to continue is becoming my motto.

[JTG51]

It's hard to give a specific answer to such a general question, but it will very rarely be correct to fold that kind of hand on the river for one bet. You should usually bet again, not check and call or check and fold.

The majority of my TPTK (Top Pair Top Kicker) folds are on the turn. Once I make it to the river, I almost never fold a strong hand, at least not for 1 bet.

[Joe Tall]

CARDCUDA,

The questions you ask are tough to answer without actual hand analysis. Hold'em is such a complex game that individual actions and reactions of players will help you make the correct folds/raises/calls.

My suggestion to you is to download some hand histories, describe the game and actions of a certain hand in a post and we can tell you where you went wrong or right.

I can tell you this, if you cannot beat the .5/1 games, moving up will only be a disaster.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[JTG51]

Ah, I didn't even read your last paragraph before I replied.

Any defense against this (besides jamming the pots) when you know your ahead

Yeah, stop focusing on the times you get sucked out on and instead focus on the times you get called down by bottom pair when you have top pair.

...or should I move to a higher limit to rid myself of the river rage...

I don't know why this comes up all the time, but if you are having trouble beating a game, playing against tougher players isn't the correct solution.

When the over card falls, bluff and get called and lose

There's part of your problem right there. Don't bluff so much against players that you know are going to call you with any pair. Makes sense, right?

Flop 2 pair an over-pair or better to continue is becoming my motto.

I'll take all of the one pair hands that you don't want. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Give me TPTK every hand in .5/1 game and I'll retire in a few years.

[scotnt73]

dont think of it as your pot until you drag it. If i have AK im not goin anywhere until you pry it out of my cold dead hand.(a leak of mine..lol)

[MortalNuts]

I'm curious to hear what others have to say about this, since it may well be a leak for me as well.

My general gameplan with TPTK, where the pair is weak, is to play it very aggressively (maybe too aggressively) -- but it sounds like you knew this already. I want to put people to a decision for two bets if at all possible, since I figure that's my best shot at getting overcards to fold here. For that reason (and I'm probably in the nutcase-minority here), this is one of the rare cases where I sometimes prefer to be in EP -- you can check, and if a LP player bets, you can try the c/r and force people to call two cold. I've found this to be a fairly effective play -- most people at these limits don't seem to play TPTK that aggressively, so many will figure your c/r to mean a big hand. If someone 3-bets you, you know how to play.

In LP (which is what you were asking about), I'd still raise, but realize that if the original bettor was in EP and the folks in between you called, you're probably not going to force out the overcards.

When the overcard comes on the river, I too tend to call, even though it seems I'm beat the vast majority of the time -- especially if you were raising earlier and getting callers, the pot is just too large at this point to give it up for one bet. My play also depends on where the bet comes from on the river -- if say an EP player who was _not_ the aggressor on prior rounds bets into you all, and there are multiple callers ahead of you, I'm more inclined to fold. (This may be dead wrong, though, since the pot is so large -- I just figure that with the pot protected like this, few people will bet without at least TP.) If the bet is from a late-position player, after which I'm first to act, I will almost always call.

Teach us, o wise 2+2 denizens!

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[TheRake]

CardCuda,
This probably happens less than you think it does. We all tend to have selective memory when It comes to river beats. Here is the thing...Unless their overcard is an ace most of the LL players will not stick around through the later betting rounds. Most will call the flop for a small bet, then fold when the bet doubles. Especially if they only have one non-ace overcard (which is a typical fish hand). This means that even when a K or Q falls on the river you may still have the best hand. IMO the best course of action when you are not sure is to simply check and call the river. this accomplishes 2 things...It may save you from being unexpectedly raised and creating more confusion or two...it may induce a bluff from one of your other opponents thus you pick up an extra bet you may not have made. All this being said, if you think you have the best hand on the river do not be afraid to bet out. I know it is scary sometimes when you can't get a read because your opponents could be holding anything, but don't bet scared. If the bad player never won any hands he wouldn't keep coming back. GL to you...

TheRake

[PokerNoob]

Yep, thats the problem with these hands. When you preflop raise (and you must) all virtual eyes turn to you after the flop. TPTK is a very good hand. Bet and call, bet and call. Your six outs vs. their six. But often you don't need any outs at all. Make that bet on then end too, you'll be shown all kinds of hands you beat, particularly top pair you outkick. Keep track of those hands and you'll see you're making money on them.