30-60 Stud 8 Hand

[Kevin J]

A jack raised the bring-in to $30 and a 4 called. I made it $60 with (A3)A. They both called.

On 4th: The J caught 7, the 4 caught a T, and I caught a 3. I bet and they both called.

On 5th the J7 caught a J and bet. The 4 folded.

I'm a hold'em player, but I know anytime someone pairs their door it can be major trouble. But c'mon! I mean this guy would raise 3rd with (KQ)J, etc. If so, of course he's gonna lead when his jack pairs.

I thought I could raise and fold to a 3 bet, but for 1 more bet I could see the hand through and maybe catch full. So I called. And called. And called. And lost to 3 jacks. Do I suck at this game or what?

[Vehn]

What are ya gonna do? This isn't hold'em, the "raise and fold to a 3-bet" line isn't really valid here. Just call down and when shown a better hand just shrug and muck. The end.

[MRBAA]

Depends on the player. I don't play much Stud-8, but I think there are some players who would play a pair of jacks but not three big cards. It's a marginal situation: there's about $350 in the pot, so you're getting a little better than 2-1 to call to the river. And you do have 2 clean outs (the aces) although one may have been in the low hand that folded, and two possible outs with the threes (if he doesn't fill his jacks). If you knew he had trip jacks, you'd fold here, I think. But since he could have two pair (if he started with pockets) or (maybe) a high draw that paired, it does seem like a fairly routine stud situation where you are tied to the pot.

[nykenny]

i am also a hold'em player that is interested in Stud 8. tho your situation came up a few times for me in a 7stud game. I found myself having the same problem against paired door card.

one time i had [xx]AA and called someone with [x5]55 the whole way to river, i was so sick.

but last night in a 20-40 stud, i had [A6]6 and raised 2 limper [xx]Q, [xx]3. Q is a aggro player who would raise 99.9% when he has another Q. [xx]8 called. 8 looked live to my eyes.

3 called and Q reraised! i thought for a quick sec and decided that he had some kinda draw hand like all clubs or straight draw and wanted to push out the live 8 (possible pair of 8). i made it 60, and 8 called! 3 called!. Q called.

4th street [xx]8x, [xx]33 BET 40! [xx]Qx called, i made [A6]6A, and decided to raise! only [xx]33 called 40 more.

5th street, he checked i bet. 6th street i made [A6]6Ax6! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Bet, called. River Bet, called. I won a nice pot.

so sometimes it's good to put him to the test, earlier the better.

Kenny

[Andy B]

Would this guy really raise with (KQ)J? If so, you should be able to get his money anyway. Raising and then mucking to a three-bet is a poor idea, because when he three-bets, the pot is now so big that you have to call anyway. I don't usually play split Jacks in this game, certainly not when there is an Ace behind me, but a lot of players do, and they'll usually raise with them. Trip Jacks is his most likely holding, but I think that the combined chances that he started with a pair in the hole and that you might fill is great enough that you should call this one down. Did you catch small on fifth street? If so, then I think a call is clear, although you still can't be comfortable with it.

Not that I have the buy-in right now, but where are they spreading $30/60 stud/8 these days?

[Cooling Heels]

A stud/8 game where a player with split jacks raises with a 4 and an ace yet to act is a game I like to play in. It's a common move at PartyPoker, but often with ugly results for the guy on the river. With those cards in behind me, I would muck split jacks, raise with pocket aces, either raise or call/re-raise with rolled up jacks. A live (ace,2)
suited may be worth a limp, but not a raise.

It's hard to imagine raising with (K,Q)J in stud/8, but if the guy does that sometimes it makes his hands hard to read. With most players, a raise in that position would likely indicate quads, trips or aces up when he shows (X,X) J,7,J on fifth. Not bumping you back on third makes quads unlikely. A straight flush draw may cause a third street raise, but how often do those hands appear?

Your raise on third and bet on 4th were routine. With the money in the pot from all the 3rd street action, and the slim implied pot odds of a raise if you boat on the river, calling and drawing to end would be my action also. If the guy with the 4 caught another wheel card and stayed in to draw another low card, you would have been sweating, but that's the nature of stud/8.