View Full Version : Best Poker Movie?
morgant
11-12-2003, 04:06 PM
What are the best poker movies out there? first fiction then maybe even some non-fictional learning stuff.
I saw a top ten list web site and it said some movie with Kirsten Dunst was the best one so i bought it on blind faith what a waste of a few bucks.
morgant
11-12-2003, 05:31 PM
maybe this will get some people going with some alternatives?
It's the best one I've seen. Certainly better than The Cincinnati Kid and Maverick. I hope Stuey comes to my town, but then again I hear it's not that great either.
rkiray
11-12-2003, 05:55 PM
What poker movie was Kirsten Dunst in?
TheRake
11-12-2003, 06:24 PM
I have only seen Rounders and Maverick.. So guess I'll vote Rounders /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Side note: They should make "Positively 5th Street" into a movie...That would be a great movie IMO
TheRake
morgant
11-12-2003, 06:36 PM
its called Luckytown, i couldnt even get to the gambling scenes it was so terrible. i found it on pokertop10.com
number 4
Luckytown (2000)
Kirsten Dunst is on a quest to find her father who is a notorious gambler. She picks up a video store clerk with a dream of being 'the' poker player and heads off to Las Vegas to find happiness, her father, or ruin. Lots of good action, great gambling scenes, Kirsten looks particularly sweet and she pole dances. Can you think of a better one? ;P
Depraved
11-12-2003, 06:53 PM
Wake up CALL
11-12-2003, 11:34 PM
If there had only been 9 other movies in history made with a poker theme Rounders would rate a poor 10th!
A Big Hand for the Little Lady is by far the best.
Easy Money with Rodney Dangerfield and Joe Pesci. The whole goal of the movie turns out to be getting away from the family to have pizza, beer, and poker with your pals. It is a very happy ending and teaches the meaning of life.
I.Rowboat
11-13-2003, 03:15 AM
Does it have to be a whole movie? I think the poker scenes from House of Games and The Sting are the most authentic/interesting/compelling moments about poker I've seen on film, even if they have more to do with cheating than straight poker. Good stuff.
IMHO, the best poker movie hasn't been made yet. The Hustler is probably the best movie about gambling ever, but it touches on poker only tangentially -- Bert, George C. Scott's money man character, is a poker player, but we only see him playing cards in one scene. But The Hustler has heart -- more heart than any other movie about gambling that I'm aware of. It rings true, even 40+ years after it was made.
For all its supposed earnestness, Rounders is not in the same league (again, IMO). To me, Rounders is a lot closer to The Color of Money -- entertaining at times but also embarassing at times, and the uneveness is hard to overlook. Example: Does Mike really believe that by bluffing Johnny Chan for one freaking hand that he has the stuff to hang with the best? Are we to believe that he believes it, and will stake his future on that tenuous assessment? That moment is passed off in the film as if it is Mike's true personal epiphany, but it sure rang hollow to me.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. The ultimate poker movie is still out there, waiting to be made. Given the popularity of poker at the moment in Hollywood, maybe we'll see another take on it in a few years.
baggins
11-13-2003, 03:59 AM
that cheesey stuff about Mikey bluffing Chan was Hollywood's solution to the poker player's religious epiphany.
Can you really blame Hollywood for being Hollywood?
johnnyhearts
11-13-2003, 05:56 AM
You couldn't be more right on with your assessment of The Hustler! It is one of the greatest MOVIES ever made and does capture the elation and sometimes desperate squalor of a hustling lifestyle.
I'm also wondering if anyone has considered Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels which features a great scene in which the characters play a very large limit game of brag and features a brutal "beat" that rivals The Cincinatti Kid?
Johnny Hearts/ Leisure-Boys of the World Unite!
NutCrackerr
11-13-2003, 09:44 AM
I heard they are making "Positively 5th Street" into a movie.
mrbaseball
11-13-2003, 10:05 AM
The 2 most popular/famous poker movies, Rounders and Cinci Kid aren't very good movies. I heard somewhere (not sure where?) a Cinci Kid remake may be in the works? I look forward to Stuey if it ever gets released. I think "The Biggest Game in Town" would be an outstanding framework for a movie.
The best movies with poker content are probably The Sting and Cool Hand Luke. I liked House of Games too.
Another not really great movie but sentimental favorite of mine is California Split.
TheRake
11-13-2003, 10:31 AM
Fun post Morgant..Guess I will be raiding Blockbuster this weekend. I have been playing so much poker lately that it has been months since I last rented a movie. It will be a nice break from poker to watch some movies about poker /images/graemlins/grin.gif
TheRake
Big Al
11-13-2003, 11:52 AM
Your nuts, The Cinncinati Kid is a great movie. Steve McQueen, The King of Cool, playing a poker player...it doesnt get much better than that. The only reason some poker hacks dont consider it a great movie is because they play 5 card draw in the movie, a game that hasnt been popular for decades and one they cant relate to. The movie was set in New Orleans in the 20's, dont forget.
mrbaseball
11-13-2003, 12:04 PM
McQueen is fantastic. Especially in The Magnificent Seven and The Great Escape /images/graemlins/smile.gif
But the story in Cinci was sorta slow and uninteresting and the poker scenes weren't good. Ann Margaret is hot though /images/graemlins/smile.gif I even like 5 card stud. Although Hollywood sure made some strong 5 card hands!
The cast is great, the subject is great but the storytelling isn't so great making it nothing more than a 2 star movie for me. Despite that rating I have watched it a zillion times!
ElSapo
11-13-2003, 01:33 PM
There needs to be distinction between "Most Realistic Poker Movie," "Best Poker Movie," and so on...
...Rounders was not a bad movie. The poker in it may not have been great, but to call it outright a "bad" movie is going to far, in my opinion. Not a "great" movie either. And though it didn't become very popular instantly I think it's doing good things for the game now.
...The Cincinatti Kid, though the poker is bad, is a good movie in my opinion. And the line "I don't need marked cards to beat you" has to be one of the greatest poker comebacks ever.
...Maverick just, er, well... no good.
...The Hustler, though not about poker, is the best gambling movie ever made. Combine with the pseudo-sequel and you have two great movies that are really more about people than anything else. For a fantastic quote about poker, Tevis' novel has Bert doing a few lines about what it takes to win at poker. I'll post them tonight from home if no one can find them, the whole "unless you're in a game with a sap or a drunk," bit, talking about how everyone knows the odds and that's not what poker/gambling/winning is about.
...Oh God You Devil, I believe, had a poker scene. I don't recall. Or maybe I read that here.
Back to The Hustler/Color of Money for a moment, I'd highly reccoment the books. The Hustler has an entire philosophy in it that can pretty well be applied to anything, not just gambling. He also wrote a novel about chess, "The Queens Gambit," which was pretty good. Sadly, Tevis died a while back.
Ted Geisel
11-13-2003, 01:58 PM
California Split is the a better poker movie than Rounders, if by that one means most realistic in showing what a grinding, low value, time killing activity poker really is 95% of the time.
If you want to feel good about yourself and have dreams of "hitting it big", then Rounders is better for you ... The critique that the one hand epiphany of Mikey in bluffing out Chan is unrealistic is accurate, but that is why it is a great movie for players who WANT to believe that crap. (Similarly most of the set pieces in the movie truly were ridiculous, from the Talmudic scholar's droning "Mikey, Mikey, Mikey", to the Judges' game overblown dialogue, to the amazingly benign "beating" afforded the two cheaters, to the world record amount of scenery chewed up by Malkovich as TeddyKGB.
Don't get me wrong, Rounders was a great poker movie, if by great you mean hilarious but entertaining.
Some ideas for the "ultimate poker movie"
1. It should probably be in Vietnamese, with Farsi sub- titles;
2. Filmed on location at the Commerce with a cameo by "Michelob Mike";
3. Feature a railbird in his quest to finally move up to the 2/4 hold-em.
4. Follow a dealer in his off-shift quest to actually cash a check instead of squandering it at the tables and buying everyone rounds.
5. Explore the issues related to which cars are most comfortable to sleep in.
6. Show tips on how to use a wash-sink for a sponge-bath.
7. How to run the gauntlet of rail-birds and freeloaders asking for hand-outs as you make your way to the cage.
8. How to cut in front of everyone at the board and seat yourself, then tips on how to argue very loud about the mix up.
9. Tips on avoiding time charges.
10. Explore the proper amount of interest to charge for "lucky money"
Prickly Pete
11-13-2003, 02:59 PM
It sounds like everyone thinks that all the poker movies to date are duds, so maybe the stage needs to be updated to include internet poker. Maybe I'll film myself with 4 tables going at once, playing in my boxers. 90 minutes of me scratching my ass has top 10 written all over it.
Time to go write that movie treatment.
felson
11-13-2003, 05:32 PM
I agree that The Hustler is the best gambling movie ever. Of course, I kind of have to...
George Rice
11-13-2003, 06:06 PM
Why so negative on The Color Of Money? I think it's a much better film than Rounders. I haven't seen the Hustler so I can't compare it. I always thought that C.O.M. captured the mindset of the poker world better than any actual poker movie, especially with regards to tournament side games (not that the two gambling or hustling methods are the same, just the mindset of the better gamblers). So I can see where the Hustler might be better still.
Rounders dealt directly with poker and dealt with some poker specific situations well. But it only showed the glitter of the poker world, and a little of the worst of it. Most of the reality is somewhere in between. And the movie captured the mindset of wannabees, not actual winners, imo.
A Big Hand For The Little Lady is probably the most entertaining, along with the Sting--both dealing with hustling. The Cincinatti Kid was a bit over the top. Maverick was silly.
The best poker movie moment was Paul Newman's "Four Jacks" ("I can't call him on cheating better than me!" lol), by far over the final hand in C.K.
Interesting how three of the better movies about gambling starred Paul Newman. I wonder to what degree he played pool and cards. He even played Cribbage in the Sting. Perhaps he's a real gamesman. I know he raced cars.
George Rice
11-13-2003, 06:14 PM
The reason "poker hacks" don't like Cincinatti Kid, or more specifically the poker game in the movie, is that the final hand is ridiculous. The so-called expert made bad plays one after the other. But the movie is a classic for other reasons.
Ted Geisel
11-13-2003, 06:38 PM
Shhh .. if Ryan hears you say that his world view and belief systems will come crashing down ..... Stuey not the BEST ??? How can that be ?
God of Gamblers. It entertains. That's what a movie is supposed to do, in my opinion.
~D
Maybe he just looks like a degenerate gambler (Rounders and Color of Money).
~D
I.Rowboat
11-13-2003, 08:58 PM
Let me just state that when The Color of Money came out in 1986, I was so eager to see this movie that I took half the day off to catch the first showing in my city (I was just out of college and at the time taking half a day off was a big deal financially). I was playing a lot of pool then, and was really looking forward to seeing this movie. And while I thought it captured some things well (like the scene where they go looking for pool rooms that are no longer there, and the scene where Newman gets hustled himself by Forest Whitaker), I was disappointed that it wasn't as good as The Hustler. The Hustler had a lot of heart, and I thought Newman brought tremendous intensity to his performance. And, of course, it helps to be acting in scenes with George C. Scott and Jackie Gleason (and have Willie Mosconi shoot your massé shots for you).
I guess my biggest complaint with T.O.M. is that I have trouble understanding/caring about the motivation of the Tom Cruise character. In The Hustler, you had NO problem understanding where Paul Newman was coming from -- he was a damn good pool hustler who wanted to be/beat the best, but he was also flawed in ways that made him human. Since you haven't seen it I won't give away the ending, but the movie concludes with scenes that explain how he gets what he wants but it comes at a price that's greater than he wanted to pay.
T.O.M. isn't a bad movie, but it isn't a great movie either. Certainly Martin Scorsese has directed better movies, and Paul Newman has appeared in better movies. So it works as a story about pool players, but (to me) it doesn't work as a story about the heart you need to be a hustler. It gets the mechanics of the game right, but it doesn't always capture the mentality.
I guess I put Rounders in the same general category: Rounders works (mostly) as a story about a poker player, but the character isn't very complex, and the plot is all too predictable.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
GuyOnTilt
11-13-2003, 09:47 PM
I'm a big Guy Ritchie fan, but Lock Stock and 2 Smoking Barrells is definitely not a poker movie. I vote for Cinci Kid, despite the last hand being ridiculous. I also vote for a new, more realistic poker movie. Rounders sucked from the poker aspect.
George Rice
11-13-2003, 10:37 PM
The Color Of Money was more about Fast Eddie than Vince. Eddie is trying to recapture past glory, or missed opportunity. He's sucessful but not happy. There's something missing. It's a middle age crises situation. Vince was just doing what he did because he was talked into it. He was middle class and didn't have to fight his way up out of the street. He really didn't need it. It was window dressing to him. Eddie needed it bad and used Vince to try to get it, thought he had it only to find out he didn't earn it. It weasn't about the money to Eddie. Pool hustling was just a means to an end. It could have been any endeavor.
But the gambling aspects that stand out to me are the side games (the way it was at poker tournaments), looking for suckers to play (looking for the easier tables). Also Vince asks who is best at 9-ball and Eddie responds that Grady Seasons is "on paper" but it doesn't mean anything and that the balls roll funny for everyone (similar to trying to figure who the best at poker is based on tournament wins and recognizing the fluctuations which happen to everyone).
And of course the music score is always top notch in a Scorsese film.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Hustler based on your recommendation.
mrbaseball
11-14-2003, 10:09 AM
The Hustler is easily the best "pool" movie. It is truly a 4 star classic and one of the all time greats. Almost all pool movies are better (so far) than poker movies.
I was disappointed in The Color of Money although I thought it was okay. Better pool movies are the recent "Poolhall Junkies" and one of my all time favorites "The Baltimore Bullet". The Baltimore Bullet even has poker scenes. It's sort of obscure now though and hard to find as I don't believe it has ever been released on tape or disk. It came out around 1980 starring James Colburn.
ElSapo
11-14-2003, 11:39 AM
The Baltimore Bullet?
Bruce Boxleiter and James Coburn? Omar Sharif? A great pool movie?
No way... Not a good movie, in general. Maybe a decent comedy for the time. Willie Mosconi does color commentary on the tournament, including the "I've never seen this shot in a serious game bit..." where Coburn calls a ball off the break in straight pool.
You can't be serious -- the movie certainly wasn't.
anatta
11-14-2003, 12:15 PM
That scene in "Lock, stock and 2 smoking barrels" sort of reminds me of the feeling I had when I first lost really big. My legs were rubber, and I thought I was going to be sick. I like a lot about that movie. I don't know the song that they played when he walked out of the cardroom (boxing club), but its cool.
mrbaseball
11-14-2003, 12:25 PM
Not a great movie but very entertaining and much more watchable than The Color of Money.
Me and all my pool playing buddies practiced that break shot for months after seeing the movie /images/graemlins/smile.gif Admittedly not a good tournament play.
I agree The Hustler is a great book too although I havent read it in 25+ years. I'd like to pick it up and give it another go through.
onegymrat
11-14-2003, 04:13 PM
I still need to see Cincinnati Kid, but the scene in Ocean's 11 (new) where Pitt and Clooney take a few dimes off some young celebs was inspiring.
onegymrat
11-14-2003, 04:16 PM
Sad, but true. I'm sure not too many people get this joke. Well done.
AMCAW
11-14-2003, 05:31 PM
The best poker movie or scene ever was when Bugs Bunny is playing Yosemite Sam in 5 card draw, and Sam says full house read em and weep wabbit and Bugs says all I have is two pair, a pair of ones and another pair of ones. Now that has to rank up there on the bad beat category.
[ QUOTE ]
The best poker movie or scene ever was when Bugs Bunny is playing Yosemite Sam in 5 card draw, and Sam says full house read em and weep wabbit and Bugs says all I have is two pair, a pair of ones and another pair of ones. Now that has to rank up there on the bad beat category.
[/ QUOTE ]
Never took Bugs for a slow-roller.
But has there been any poker movie that was any good with the actual play of the hands? Really, if there is one tell me, because I haven't seen it. Maybe it's because real poker just doesn't make for the drama that fake poker does. However, I could definitely see the final hand of the 1998 WSOP playing well on the screen. Maybe have Scotty Nguyen play himself and Steve Buscemi as Kevin McBride.
lefty rosen
11-14-2003, 06:34 PM
Rounders is a close second though........
banditbdl
11-14-2003, 07:52 PM
Obviously not a poker movie, but Clooney's line "I'm not sure what the four nines does, but the ace I think is pretty high." is about as good as it gets.
Liz L.
11-14-2003, 08:11 PM
So no one has seen KALEIDOSCOPE?
I have a copy on order from Amazon. This is Badger's description of it:
4) Kaleidoscope (1966). An obscure, pre-Bonnie and Clyde Warren Beatty film, Beatty breaks into a factory and doctors the plates that print the cards used by the major casinos of the world. He marks the cards in a way only he can see. Naturally, after these cards go into circulation, Beatty goes on the rush to end all rushes playing blackjack and poker. Unfortunately for him, when forced into a head-up no-limit game, they switch cards to ones he can't read. Now forced to play using only his wits, he traps his opponent into an enormous pot -- only to be faced with the best poker decision I've seen in a movie. Check it out.
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