Telling Them What You Have

[tj00]

Party 2/4

I get dealt AA in the SB and 3 bet a raise. It gets capped pre-flop, I turn a set and win the hand. Very next hand I get black aces on the button. As the the steady stream of limpers is comming around I can't resist and type in "got AA again", and then raise. EP limper types "no way", and limp re-raises, I cap it. Flop comes rags, they check to me, and all call my bet. Turn comes ace, four call my turn bet. Two call my river bet, and my hand is good. Limp re-raiser had AK.

I don't know if my comment had any affect on them. It seemed to though. I rarely use the chat, and don't know why I even did it. Another psychologcial mystery I guess. Do any of you guys try anything like this online? What about live?

[illunious]

Isn't saying your hand against the rules? A couple of my friends scolded my when I did that, I never tried it at the casino. They related it to the "You are responsible for protecting your hand" rule.

[tj00]

I do not know, maybe someone else will post a reply to your question.

[baggins]

i think that is ludicrous.

of course you are responsible for protecting your hand. which means you take the consequences for *not* protecting your hand. it's your hand, for cryin out loud. if you want to give somebody the option to maximize the FTOP against you, by all means, go ahead. if you think the psychological ploy will make them call you down out of incredulity (which seems to be the case here) then by the same token, you should be able to do that.

i understand the problem with it in tournaments. but in a ring game, that's crap. tell your hand all you want.

[ChipWrecked]

Agreed. The older gentlemen I play 4/8 HE against are always talking about their hands. Sometimes they announce what they actually have, just to be tricky.

[PokerNoob]

Player A announcing his hand can give player B an advantage over player C by helping him to better know the pot odds, if as in this example somebody needs an ace for the straight and his four outer is now a two outer. Of course, player A could be lying.

[Mangatang]

Yeah, that's the point. All he did was "say" he had AA, he didn't show it. I think you should be able to "say" anything you want. You can lie about your hand (that's actually what bluffing is, in a sense) or you tell the truth. Our hero saying he has AA again shouldn't help another player unless that other player can get a read on our hero. Getting a read on a player, whether it be from his betting action or his physical/verbal tells, is part of poker.

I say talk away.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

It's the classic double-reverse psychological move. I have no problem with your maneuver because they'll like be more suspicious and call you down more often when you get a favorable board. I'd be less inclined to try this live tho. I would not do this very often tho.

al

[baggins]

i do it playing live when i feel the time is right. it works tremendously.

[dylhead]

Sometimes I find it better not to say I have "AA" but to say something to the effect of "I have a monster hand, you should really fold". Players tend to get less upset if you focus on their actions than if you say your exact hand. Remember the 98 WSOP when Scotty Nyugen told Kevin McBride "You call and it's all over". The board was 88899 and scotty had the other 9 for the bigger full house. McBride called and played the board because he figured scotty to be bluffing. It's an excellent move to use on inexperienced players because their perception of the game is that it's all about bluffing and they will call you down more often than not.

[Jeststeve]

I have to agree that it is a usefull tactic in throwing your opponents off. Why would you tell us what you have? they think and figure you to be bluffing or whatever. Personally I don't listen when people talk about their cards because the only reason they would do it is to be deceptive. (weather they tell the truth about the hand or not.) reverse- double reverse- or even triple it's all lying to get them to do something they shouldn't. Which is what you want. The whole objective of the game is to make the right decision and get them to make the wrong one. However....

In all of the live games I've played in a casino (not home games or online), you will / should get chastised for announcing your hand. It plays into collusion. You may nopt even be talking to the fish. you may have a partner in the game. Or it's as simply as discussing the hand. I know if your not in the hand and even guess at someone elses cards they get mad at you for bringing it up. I know it happens a lot. But it is against the rules. If you can get away with it, okay. but expect to get called on it if your playing in a live casino game.

Just my thoughts.

[bisonbison]

The furthest I'll go is to tell the normally tight player who's thrown away 80% of his chips in the last 2 rounds "maybe you should stop tilting". It can annoy the other people at the table, but properly timed, like when you've taken their A-6o with your QQ, it can push someone right over the edge.

[goofball]

i love this move!
espicially when you have the nuts
raise and say "you better be able to beat my..."

[dsm]

If it were against the rules, it's easy to get around simply by rephrasing. You "imply" rather than saying it directly.

Something like:

"LOL, U aren't gonna BELIEVE what I have again!!!! :O)

[vector]

Put it another way; if it's ok to announce your hand, is it ok for players who have mucked to announce their hands?

You know how it goes, player A folds preflop to a raise, then says 'aww, I would have made a fullhouse on that flop'. Sometimes this can really screw up your play for the hand (for instance if you wanted to bluff, other players now can rule out one of the cards that would make a set).

I think this also opens the door for collusion in online play. Whenever someone announces their hand after they have mucked and before the play is over I ask them not to do so again (politely).

I'm not actually sure where the online rooms stand on this though? I hope it is against the rules, if for no other reason than it allows too much cover for potential colluders. (Then again they would probably just use instant messenging to talk to each other).

[baggins]

i would only use this 'ploy' headsup. then i can be sure that it is only me against one opponent. besides, i'm still in the hand, and i have a legitimate interest in the outcome of that hand. anybody who has mucked has no legitimate interest in the outcome of the hand. also, there is no strategic advantage or disadvantage due to announcing a hand that has already been mucked. talking about a hand that is still live is different.

[vector]

[ QUOTE ]
anybody who has mucked has no legitimate interest in the outcome of the hand. also, there is no strategic advantage or disadvantage due to announcing a hand that has already been mucked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to the player who has mucked, but their can be huge implications for the still live hands.

[baggins]

exactly. which is why you shouldn't do it if you have mucked. but it's different if you're still in the hand.

[LetsRock]

Most of the online rooms I've played on have rules against this sort of chat. It's NOT the same as bluffing and is highly unethical.

After the hand, say what you want, but it is completely inappropriate to announce your hand, or make any comments about cards you mucked, guessing at opponents hands or any insinuations about draws while the hand is in progress.

Do this at my table and I will sick the site's host on you! Enough of these complaints and you'll be banned from the site.

While you may "just" be playing a psychological sub-game, it's against the rules.

[baggins]

i agree, except for heads up. in heads up play, there is only one person that it can hurt, and that is me. nobody else should have the option to hurt my chances by talking, and i shouldn't have the option to hurt anybody else's chances. but if it's only my stacks that are effected, then i don't have a problem with talking about my hand on occasion, if it seems to be +EV.

[GuyOnTilt]

Just a quick note. In live play, there's no rule against talking about your own hand, whether you be lying or not. However, in most live tourneys I've seen, it's against the rules to talk about your own cards and your hand would be declared dead, exposed, and mucked.

GoT

[baggins]

true. in a tourney, the situation is different. i wouldn't do it there.

[RydenStoompala]

Funny! Live, this would be an interesting gag. It depends on the table but most would probably laugh. At mid limits and higher, probably wouldn't get many giggles. Depending on how you'd bet all night they would make a decision on staying with you. Online, it just shouldn't matter. It was proabbly a good idea because if you got them again, nobody would believe it.