Limping HU

[ZeeJustin]

I have been told before that against a normal opponent, it's never correct to limp in the SB HU or if it's folded to you in the SB.

This seems logical and correct to me, especially if it's actually heads up because you'll have position on all later streets.

Is there any merit to this statement? The pros to this should be obvious, so I'm not gonna bother going over them.

[soda]

Heads up is not a statistical game, it is a mind game. The limp is a very important part of a good HU players strategy IMO. To completely disregard it is somewhat like always using a bazooka instead of your knife. Sometimes, using a knife can be better than trying to blow everything up with a bazooka.

soda

ps - I am the analogy king. NOT!

[NoTalent]

[stripsqueez]

i think you nailed it soda

i play the odd heads up tourney - i will toss in a few limps early with the primary purpose being to see what my opponent does when i do limp - its useful to know if they let you limp without raising too much or if they raise too much when you do limp - most of the time my opponents would raise too much when i did limp so i used to limp with big hands a lot of the time

heads up tactics are almost entirely opponent dependant

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[doormat]

I think it is questionable strategy to give your opponent a free card that can beat you on a hand they otherwise might have folded. Not to mention that on average you are creating a smaller pot on a hand which you choose to contend. I would do it very sparingly if at all.

doormat

[ZeeJustin]

It seems like you are saying the only reason to limp is to exploit an opponents weaknesses. Is this accurate?

Would you ever limp against someone better than you? What about against some sort of HU bot?

[StoneAge]

There is at least one type of player I use a heads up limp with- that is a passive, calling station, inexperienced HU player. Granted, this is not the type of player you usually run into, but when you do I think doing a lot of limping is a good strategy.

If the player you are playing against will always call a raise, but will rarely raise if you limp, I think that it is better to limp if you play much better post flop than the other player. Many hands you will raise with are not that big of a favorite preflop. So you can put more money in after the flop when the pot is small and your advantage bigger.

Also, some online poker sites have the HU BB on the button, it these situations the case for limping in the SB against someone who doesn't raise enough is even stronger since you will be out of position for the whole hand

[doormat]

Apparently you play very well after the flop, since you must more than make up for the 15 or 20 big blinds per hour you are not stealing.

doormat

[eugeneel]

When you are playing against a person who folds to 25% of your raises or more for a long time you may want to limp in with a soso drawing hand like 910s. As soon as you do this and he sees what you limped in with at the end (try to show it to him) you now can limp in when u get AA or KK and not have him automatically suspect that something is wrong (since if ur in u typically always used to raise preflop.)
Infact, he may be very tempted to raise ur limped AA with a weaker hand like kj as he would be putting you on a "drawing hand" and would not like you to get a free card.

It is also correct to limp with drawing hands as bad as 69s against complete calling stations.
I specialize in 25-50 HU and feel I really know the game well.


-Eugene

[StoneAge]

[ QUOTE ]
If the player you are playing against will always call a raise, but will rarely raise if you limp, I think that it is better to limp if you play much better post flop than the other player.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you steal 15-20 Blinds/hr against this player?

[doormat]

Hi Stoneage,
Perhaps I misunderstood your premise. If a player ALWAYS calls a raise, meaning he plays every hand no matter what his holdings, then of course you should limp with some frequency. I just haven't found such a player yet but would appreciate it if you let us know where he plays! /images/graemlins/cool.gif
doormat

[StoneAge]

Of course this type of opponent is not often found HU, but I have played this type of player a few times. If the BB is on the button as it is on some sites I limp a lot more often in the SB against a player who doesn't raise often since you no longer have good position.

[doormat]

Hi Stone,
I don't think we have any substantial disagreement on this, especially when the BB is the button. I don't like the structure of those games however and I suspect that sites offering that version have a lack of understanding of the game.

doormat

[StoneAge]

In my somewhat limited heads up experience, I have found that the players who will sit down at these sites HU also have a lack of understanding of the game /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Ulysses]

I limp quite a bit in HU play. I do it against players who raise too much pre-flop and players who don't raise enough pre-flop. I do it against players who fold too much and players who don't fold enough.

[doormat]

Sounds like that covers everyone who ever played except maybe eugeneel, lol.

doormat

[doormat]

True, as well as the people who run those sites!

doormat

[Copernicus]

In general you fold when you are worse than the pot odds you are getting and you raise when you will win more than your fair share of hands.

Heads up in the SB you are almost never worse than the 3/1 you are getting, and should be raising when you are better than 50/50, including folding equity. That still seems to leave something like 25% of the hands where a limp is right mathematically, plus some with stronger hands for deceptive value. Never say never is the almost universal truth.

[Michael Davis]

"I specialize in 25-50 HU and feel I really know the game well."

It doesn't matter what you feel. Post what you know and let others decide.

When you go out of your way to tell people how good you are over and over again, it makes it all the less likely. Your posts will stand for themselves if you know what you're talking about.

You are a bad person. How do you sleep at night?

-Mike

[Michael Davis]

StoneAge,

I have found that folding all but the strongest of hands is the best play in the ridiculous structure where the button is the BB. I can't see voluntarily putting in money to play out of position here.

I would call on the BB every time my opponent raised.

-Mike

[eugeneel]

the structure like on party and on pokerroom?
Yeah I call with top 75- 90% of my hands here depending on the player.