Any point in betting here?

[Brian]

Party 3/6, just sat down so no reads on any of the players. Dealt Q /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif in LP. MP open limps, I raise, BB and MP call. 3 to the Flop for 6sb.

Flop: A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to me and I bet, only BB calls. 2 to the Turn for 8sb (4bb).

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks. Is there any reason to bet here? There are no more overcards that can come and not really any draws. The pot is pretty small anyways, and while I may very occasionally give a free card that beats me, I'd like to try to induce a bluff on the River if I am in fact ahead. Results later.

-Brian

[Bob T.]

With that flop, he would be correct in calling with QJ, JT, or QT on the flop. Some players also will always take one off on the flop with a small pocket pair. It comes down to whether or not you want to give them a free card now, versus how often you think that you will be checkraised on the turn. I think that I would bet the turn, and check the river if called, instead of checking the turn and hoping to induce a bluff on the river. Your approach could be better, because at least you get to see the river, and you might be the one that needs a free card.

[Brian]

Hi Bob,

Is being check-raised on the Turn necessarily a bad thing? Easy laydown right?

-Brian

[Bob T.]

You are right, and it cost the same as calling the river. I like betting more right now.

[kiddo]

What hands will he call with on turn that you can beat?
Not many!

What hands will he fold on turn when you bet that you cant beat?
Not many. (? a bit player dependent, your image?)

I would normally check turn.

[PocketPaul]

I see no point in betting here as there is little danger that a free card will cause you to be beaten and BB is very likely to hold an A or K.

Why would BB call on QT, JT or QT, surely he does not have the pot odds to make this call, even allowing for implied odds.

Paul

[lil']

I would prefer to bet more often than check because

A) If you are check-raised you have an easy laydown
B) If your opponent is lousy he will pay you off
C) You might give a free card that could beat you
D) If he has an A or K and calls the turn, he is probably not going to come to life and bet the river, meaning you get the showdown for only 1 BB

If you check and call a bet on the river, that costs 1 BB too, but betting the turn has more advantages and will probably cost the same amount.

[Joe Tall]

Vs. two opponents here, I would bet 100% of the time. Feel free to lay down to a check raise. You will always be surprised on what hands will call you down.

Peace,
JT

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
BB is very likely to hold an A or K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say this? Simply because he called the flop? Worse hands call all the time.

[ QUOTE ]
Why would BB call on QT, JT or QT, surely he does not have the pot odds to make this call, even allowing for implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

95% of the players you will be playing aganist wouldn't understand what you meant by pot odds/implied odds. People who gamble, gamble.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[Your Mom]

Against normal players, I would bet the turn and check the river. If you are against someone real tricky who could try to move you off the winning hand (more likely if you are playing SH) then I'd just like to show it down, so I would check the turn and the call a river bet. I can see both sides of it. Oh and one more thing Brian, keep raising that KJs. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[ElSapo]

Why would BB call on QT, JT or QT, surely he does not have the pot odds to make this call, even allowing for implied odds.

I think he's getting 8-1 on his call, and could probably make up the difference if he hits. But I wouldn't make the call, myself... Wrong?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
BB is very likely to hold an A or K.

Why do you say this? Simply because he called the flop? Worse hands call all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience has been that your typical Party player puts a PFR on something containing an A or K (not that such an assumption is entirely unreasonable), so if he didn't fold to the flop bet, it means he caught some piece of the board.

He could have A6. He could have KT. He could have 87. He could have JT.

I'd be inclined to bet the turn because I think it's close to an even EV proposition either way, and I don't like how it looks for future hands when an A or a K flop and a preflop raiser goes passive before he needs to.

[X-Calibre]

Given that he was/is the BB, he could easily be protecting Axs or Kxs preflop. In fact, he was getting 5:1 at the time. He could also be putting you on trying to steal the blinds. I think you have a good shot at losing this hand, but you must at least show it down. Given that you will show it down, what is the correct way to do so that costs you the least. If you check here, then you probably spend 1BB to show. If you raise, then you will also spend 1BB only, as you can check it on the river. The two moves seem equivalent cost wise, so i say raise, this will help establish future table image. Plus if he does have QJ you will be making him pay for his draw.

[Brian]

Hi Joe,

I only have one opponent on the Turn. If I were against two, then I think it's an auto-bet as well. But there's only the BB on the Turn. Does this change your answer at all?

-Brian

[Brian]

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, I bet, BB raises, I fold.

Afterwards, I felt sort of foolish for having bet there. I would have lost 1 BB either way, but I just didn't really see the need to bet such an uncoordinated board heads-up when I am either very much behind or very much ahead. By betting, I get to charge any potential draws, and if I am behind I *probably* lose 1 BB either way, but it sure sucks if he check-calls the Turn then bets out on the River. But at the same time, by checking I ensure that I will get to see a showdown with this hand, and it may induce my opponent to bluff. If every once in awhile I give a free card that beats me, well... That's tough luck. But by checking, *I* may every once in awhile get a free card that beats my opponent. I am not sure which is best.

-Brian