Higher Limits In Colorado May Be On The Way

[AliasMrJones]

I just heard on NPR on the way home that because of the defeat of video gaming terminals in the recent election, which was to fund tourism advertising, that the betting limit may be raised from the current $5. The story mentioned that betting limits were raised from $5 to $100 2 years ago in South Dakota. If this passes, it sounds like it would be good for poker in the front range area.

[Oblivious]

It would be, although I doubt it will happen. The policies that leagalized gambling in the formerly impoverished areas of BlackHawk and CC can no longer take effect from what ive heard. I think this state is too conservitive to allow expantion of legalized gaming, but I hope it happens anyway.

[HDPM]

I don't know, I think tweaking the limits in just the areas where gambling is legal would be accepted. It would certainly help poker.

Colorado is weird politically tho. You have extreme right wing authoritarians, extreme left wing authoritarians in Denver and Boulder, and then some sensible people thrown in as well. Always has been a bizarre political climate. So I don't know if tweaking the limits is possible or not. My guess is that if it could bring in an extra $3.97 for the state they would go for it. Does it have to be done on a referendum or something, or can the legislature just do it?And if the whacko right wingers could be told that the $5 limit protects the casino in that a large win is about impossible but a large loss can be arranged easily......


P.S. On your way to the mountain from Boulder do you ever stop by the Rocky Flats Inn? Or do you go the other way? Always meant to have a couple at that bar but never did. Looked interesting.

[rharless]

This could be a new twist. Before the Amendment 33 measure was defeated, there were a couple stories/editorials about how if the measure passed, that Colorado Gaming would seek an increase in the $5 bet, to offset the lost business to the racetracks.

From my experience, various casino operators/employees have different stances on the betting limits. Of course many want it raised, but I know many -- much more than a "vocal minority" -- who like the gaming just as it is. Tippers are ridiculously generous when the betting limit is only $5. It is not uncommon to see $2-$3 tips at the $5 poker tables, or even red birds.

I, of course, would love to see the limit raised. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Oblivious]

Sorry, never stopped there. I think I take hwy6 up, not I-70. I do however stop at loafnjug in Golden to get a soda and a bag of gummie bears. They keep me occupied on the way up.

For the record, I hate our spread limit betting along with the blind structures. I think it decreases the skillful player's ability to make money at a reasonable rate. Im a big time loser in 5-5 and 2-5, and I have no idea how to adjust. If the limit were raised, perhaps we could play with a real betting structure, and my game would improve.

[HDPM]

Rocky Flats bar, if it's still there, is on the 2 lane from Boulder to Golden, 93 I think is the #.

I have not played in CO in about 10 years, so game conditions may be different. I also didn't put in a lot of hours. However, I found the 2-5 game to be soft and definitely profitable. I avoided 5-5 because it looked ridiculous, too wild and ridiculously aggressive. But the 2-5 was pretty passive, and people played bad. You could see most flops for 2 and could get a lot of action on the later streets. Guys would go multiple bets on the river when they were obviously beaten and such. Anyway, find a passive 2-5, and reread TOP on adjusting to structure.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
If the limit were raised, perhaps we could play with a real betting structure

[/ QUOTE ]

I just a newb so higher limits don't mean much to me EXCEPT that we might get a standard blind/betting structure. I'm working too hard on my regular limit game to try to adjust to the spread thing.

[J.R.]

Its a green bay packers' bar that's full of blue collar and budweiser sitting right beside the center of the coors empire. Its on 93 and its cliental is heavy made up of those working on the rocky flats clean-up project.

[CORed]

The $5.00 limit in Colorado is in the state Constitution. Gambling in the old mining towns was instituted by a constitutional amendment, and the $5.00 limit was included in the amendment, which was modeled on the South Dakota initiative. This ammendment also limited games to poker, blackjack and slot machines. "Poker", however includes such house banked sucker games as "Let it Ride", "Three Card Poker" and "Caribean Stud". Constitutional amendments in Colorado must be enacted by a vote. They can be put on the ballot either by the legislature or by petition. Since the original ammendment that brought gambling to Blackhawk, Central City and Cripple Creek, every attempt to expand gambling has failed.

However, I don't believe any of these proposals were for higher limits. Most were to allow gambling at other venues, and the existing casinos vigorously opposed them, as they did the most recent proposal, because they didn't want the competition. I found it amusing and ironic to see TV ads, payed for primarily by the casinos, about how terrible more slot machines would be. I actually thought that passage of the ammendment might motivate the mountain casinos to try to get limits raised on table games, in order to be able to offer something different from the race track/slot palaces that would have been closer to most of the target population. In my experience, even though casino employees will often talk about getting the limits raised, The owners of the casinos don't seem to be too motivated to do so. Most of their revenue comes from slots and video poker, which aren't really hurt by the low limit. I would like to see higher limit poker games. I get tired of 2/5 spread limit and I don't like the 5/5 structure: Too high a blind: pot ratio.

[HDPM]

Yeah, I was thinking it was one of the idiotic amendments or something. I recalled reading some statutes on it, but that was probably just the regs passed after the amendment allowing it. I didn't pay much attention to the process of getting limited gambling there, or if I did I sure don't remember. I was doing my gambling in pool halls and bars at the time IRRC. The amendment process in CO is kind of a mess sometimes. The $5 limit doesn't much hurt the house. People will lose about what they are going to lose probably, with the exception of some high rollers who would probably fly to las vegas anyway. But $5 flat bet table games virtually insure a win for the house.

[CORed]

I don't play 5/5, but the 2/5 han't changed that much. Regulars tend to be loose-passive preflop, and loose-passive to weak-tight postflop. Most play way too many hands preflop. Weekend players are often completely clueless.

The $2 blind makes the cost of folding low, so you can play very tight. OTOH, it also makes implied odds better, so you can play more drawing hands, small pocket pairs, suited aces, suited connectors, as long as there isn't much preflop raising. Preflop raises, though can be as much as $5, so, if you get raised with a drawing hand, you may have to fold. Most players who raise will raise to either $5 or $7 preflop. I don't play too differently preflop from a structured limit game, except that I will raise to $7 if i'm trying to thin the field, e.g. wigh AKo in late position with several players already in for $2, or raise to $5 if I'm primarily interested in building a pot e.g. with AA or AKs. Stealing the blind (there is just a single $2 blind) isn't worth much, but stealing the blind and a couple of limps is. On the flop, you have to play tighter than in a structured game, especially if there is no raise preflop, because you don't have the implied odds from the bet doubling on later streets that you do in a structured game, and if there is no raise preflop, the pot is pretty small too. Most people will (correctly) bet the maximum $5 postflop, although you will occasionally see smaller bets, sometimes because a player doesn't have much confidence in his hand, sometimes because he has a good hand and is hoping to trap you. Generally, tight agressive play will get the money.

[J.R.]

People will lose about what they are going to lose probably, with the exception of some high rollers who would probably fly to las vegas anyway. But $5 flat bet table games virtually insure a win for the house

Thta's why there is little incentive to try to expand the limits. The casinos will be taking on much greater risk/variance with a marginal increase in revenues, and will have quite an expensive political battle to get it.

Why raise their profile, as there are many groups in Colorado who would like to end casino gambling, and any push by the casinos to boost limits could lead to a political backlash against the "greedy" casinos that blows up in the gaming indistry's face.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi J.R.
What we should be asking the political types for is just an increase in the limits for HE, Stud, Omaha etc.

On the grounds that it gives a better rake to profit ratio for the constituents who are players.

Rakes should be made to stay the same or at least not get any worse.

To heck with raising limits on -EV games. Who cares?

Sincerely,
AA

[J.R.]

The point is any limit increase invovles asking the public to vote for an amendment, like the slots amendment in the recent election.

Poker is not enough of a money makes to justify spending the millions it would take to pass this amendment at the polls, and given every gaming initiative since the original passed in 1991 has failed, this could be expensive, and perhaps backfire as the opponent's of gaming are strong and it looks bad if an industry that is somewhat disfavored already is portrayed as greedy and not content with their current revenue, which is already in the hundreds of millions.

[CORed]

Actually, there is nothing preventing the casinos from offering a $2.50/$5.00 structured game if enough people asked for it. I believe they run the spread limit games beccause they generate a little bigger pots, and therefore more rake.

[mzrtopera]

I like everyones replys. Good thread for us.

If the limit will raise then the casinos will want the limit raise for all table games. Then they could offer more such as Pai Gow and others. At the Midnight Rose they shut down blackjack because it can not be played at the $5 level. Raising the limits will allow a proper blackjack game.

Also, other spread limit games could be offered such as 1448.

I do better in Las Vegas than here in Colorado for two reasons. There is no closing time in Las Vegas and I can sit and play whenever I want to. I find that I play too many hands here in Colorado since I drove up to the casino on a weekend day and I feel like I have to play too many hands to get my moneys worth. Dumb I know, but I do find myself playing that way and I have to watch it when I do start playing that mindset.

Sherman

[J.R.]

Maybe the horribly oppressive rake is a factor as well.