Pot and Implied Odds

I want to make sure I'm thinking through this correctly. Online $1-$2. I'm in the big blind with Kh3h. 3 limpers, SB calls, I check my option. There are 5 players and 2.5 big bets.

Flop: Th4d3c. Checked around.


Turn: 6h[Th4d3c]. UTG bets. UTG+1 raises. Button and SB fold. There are now 5.5 big bets in the pot giving me pot odds of 5.5:2. If UTG calls, pot odds will be 6.5:2. If I hit the flush, and get one caller on the river, I will be getting implied odds of 7.5:2. If there are 2 callers on the river, I will get implied odds of 8.5:2, barely enough to draw for a flush. Are my calculations correct? I fold. UTG reraises. UTG+1 calls. And of course the


River: 8h[6hTh4d3c].


Comments and criticism are welcome.

On the flop, you have bottom pair, an overcard, and a backdoor flush draw. You have four opponents who have merely limped in. With one of your four opponents checking to you, I think you should consider betting out here. This is an unraised pot with no one showing any strength. Your hand may be best. If not, you have some outs. You would call if someone else bet, so I think you should consider betting here. You might even win the pot outright.


On the turn, you must bet out now that you have picked up a flush draw given that the flop was checked around. At this point, no one seems interested in the pot and no one seems to have anything. Again, your pair may be good and you have a ton outs (9 flush outs, 2 outs to trips, and 3 outs to two pair for a total of 14 outs) if it isn't. You might even get a better hand to fold. Checking is a mistake.


Having decided to check, you have now put yourself in a quandary when it gets bet and raised back to you. You cannot rule out the possibility that the bettor may have just one pair and the raiser may have two pair. When this is the case, you may have all 14 outs still working. I would call. I would call the 3-bet.


I think you are asking the wrong question and looking at this situation incorrectly.

For ego reason's I would like to take credit for Brier's fine post. I had a feeling his was going to be the same as I intended.


I don't think his advice to bet the flop is much better than checking; you do after all have bottom pair; but his argument that your hand is worth a call (and you will wish you had taken a stab at it if everybody checks the flop) DOES indicate a bet is in order. Your hand is worth a turn bet even if you do not pick up your draw, and is MUCH better than checking when you do.


I also emphasize that there is certainly doubt whether one of the opponents has a straight; heck they BOTH may have only one pair; or one a pair and one a draw. Thus your 5 card pair outs will usually win this pot for you. Also, there is some slim chance your pair of 3s is best since UTG2 could easily have picked up a flush draw and is restealing from UTG who obviously has very little.


Unless UTG2 is sure to have a set or a straight, your hand is well worth a call. Even if he DOES have a straight you lose only pennies when you call. If UTG2 is particulary assertive and very willing to go out on a limb, then your hand is worth 3-betting to knock out UTG and potentially promote your 2nd best pair of 3s to the best hand.


The key feature to this hand is that everybody checked the flop which routinely means nobody has anything. A second key feature is that you are in the blind and could represent any hand and could easily be slow-playing; much less true for UTG2.


- Louie

Both posts were very helpful.


UTG had a set of 4s and UTG2 had 2 small pair.


Thanks again.